Methodist Olivers

Barb Silvester · Senior Member

RE: Methodist Olivers

Shane Bywaters · Guru

Hi All,

As part of this thread I had included a picture of the Stonesfield Methodist congregation in 2000.

Today I have added a new little article to the website entitled 'Methodism comes to Stonesfield' which includes a copy of a handwritten letter from 1800, exactly 200 years prior to the 2000 photograph, where with 4 others our own David Oliver is establishing the roots of Methodism in Stonesfield.

Its amazing to see an Oliver signature from more that 200 years ago, so please take a look, select 'Facts and Happenings' from the top menu, then select ''Methodism comes to Stonesfield'.

Thanks!
Shane

Shane Bywaters · Guru

From the March 2013 Edition of the Stonesfield Slate, 'one of the most gentlemanly of men'.

Shane Bywaters · Guru

Included in the information and pictures in this thread is Mildred Oliver, I also recently found the following in the March edition of the Stonesfield Slate.

Thanks,
Shane

Shane Bywaters · Guru

More wonderful memory work ladies - Ken's bald head in the 50's/60's sounds like the giveaway to which one he is - hopefully I've now popped the right names against the right people that you've remembered.

Glad to hear those old views were enjoyed too.

Thanks both
Shane

rene oliver · Senior Member

Hi Shane and Barbara,

Lovely photo. In the 50`s and 60`s when I used to wave to Ken working in the fields he was practically bald. So I agree with you Barb - Ken must be the one towards the back almost in the centre. Haven`t seen Phylis since the 50`s so cannot trace her.
Front row - left of `Mildred` is Mary Secole (nee Smith) and her husband Harold is wearing check jacket looking over her shoulder.

Barbara you are bringing back so many memories. I realise I most likely know you.

Barb Silvester · Senior Member

Hi Shane:

I love the old photos you have posted of Stonesfield. I actually remember it looking more like the old views than the new ones. I guess things hadn't changed quite as much in the 1950's as they have changed in the past 40 years.

In view 1 the first house you see facing the camera is where Mary Evins and her family lived and the house behind it is where Bernard Hunt and his family lived. It's where Pat Hunt grew up.

In view 2 I remember the old cottages behind the Chapel (I still think of it as the Salvation Army meeting hall), and remember a couple of families that lived there. I don't think they had running water because I think there was a tap by the street where they got their water.

Where do you find these wonderful old photos?

Barb

jane · Senior Member

Going back to the original list, I see we haven't yet dealt with William Albert & Annie Oliver who were of Finstock 1913 and Botley 1915.

William A. Oliver married Annie Allaway in the Witney district, Q2 1912.
FreeBMD picks up the following Olivers with mother's maiden name Allaway:

Mary E. Oliver (b.1913, Chipping Norton district)
William C. Oliver (b.1915, Witney district)
Albert J. Oliver (b.1916, Witney district)
Jack Oliver (b.1919, Henley district)
Henry G. Oliver (b.1921, Abingdon district)
Eric H. Oliver (b.1924/5, Abingdon district) (registered Q1 1925)

Given that the first two children were baptised at the Finstock Methodist church, I am guessing that William Albert was one of the Finstock Olivers?

That leaves only Aaron George Oliver, who is listed in the baptism register as Heron George Oliver, son of George & Sarah. There's a birth registration for him as Aaron George, but so far I have no other sightings of him. The fact that he was baptised at Stonesfield on the same day as Albert & Hannah Oliver's daughter may be significant.

Shane Bywaters · Guru

I've located a couple more old photo's of the Primitive Methodist Chapel built 1855/56 at the top of Peaks Lane.

Then I've als tried to create a version of how how those same view 'roughly' look now.

The two old photo's are circa. 1910-1930.

View 1

View 2

Wow Barb, that's very impressive stuff recalling all those names and faces, I'll update the picture with some more names.

Thanks,
Shane

Barb Silvester · Senior Member

Hi Shane:

That's so neat that you can put the names on the photo. If you want to identify a few others:
Cath Fowler is front row 3rd from left; Vera Hanks is 2nd row behind Mildred and Mary; directly behind Vera is Pete Gregory; Joyce Pauling is 3rd row left hand side (with white hair); directly behind her is her sister Doreen Gregory (dark hair and glasses).

You may be right about Ken Barrett, but I thought he was centre back, rather than the one you have identified, but I may be wrong. Pyllis I can't identify at all.

Barb

Shane Bywaters · Guru

Hi Both,

Thanks for all of that additional info, brilliant.

Oh yes, duh, I had completely skipped across that earlier part of the discussion where we talked about the daughters of Stanley Francis and Mildred Emily (nee Rowles) - it all fits perfectly of course.

So, given Barb's advice on where Mildred is in the photo that makes placing Mary and Ron Evins very clear. Then I think I have maked who Ken and Phyllis are too.

So, if those records are correct concerning David Oliver being a founder of the first Stonesfield Methodist Chapel in 1802, how satisfied I'm sure he would be to know that over 200 years later a good proportion of the current day Stonesfield Methodist congregation are still Olivers/Oliver descendents.

Thanks for the help with this both!
Shane

Barb Silvester · Senior Member

Hi Shane:

Yes, this is the Mildred Oliver who was married to Stan and was the mother of Julia, Stephanie and Kathleen. (Third from the right - front row.) She looks the way I remember her from 50 years ago. Some people never age!

Ken and Phyllis (Ernie Barrett's children) grew up on their farm between Combe and the Combe turn on the Woodstock Road. The farm house was on the right hand side of the road going from Combe to the Combe turn.

I recognize and remember some of the others in the picture, but don't think there is an Oliver connection.

Barb

jane · Senior Member

Hi again Shane

I think this announcement from the Witney Gazette of 30 January 2009 might help place one more of the people in that photo:

OLIVER Mildred Emily
OLIVER Neè Rowles Mildred Emily Died peacefully at home on 27 January 2009 aged 93 years. Wife of the late Stanley Oliver, dearly loved mother, grandmother and great grandmother. Service at Stonesfield Methodist Church on Thursday 5 February 2009 at 11.30am followed by a private family committal. Family flowers only, donations if desired for Stonesfield Methodist Church or Stonesfield Lunch Club c/o Greens Funeral Services, 21 High Street, Eynsham, Oxford, OX29 4HE.

Shane Bywaters · Guru

Hi Jane,

Yes, I did know about that reference on the British History website, sadly though I think the associated documents are at the Bodleian which I can't access so have never really progress with it - would love to see the documents referenced though, so when the ORO reopens it may be worth me asking at aleast.

Hi Barb,

Yes, you're quite right, Albert was May's youngest brother, so their children would have been your Dad's cousins.

Now Dempsey, well I have come learn that he was quite a character and liked a tipple shall we say - his name was Ernest and he was married to Chrissie - Mary, his daughter, came to the family history day last year.

Glad the photo's of the buildings help bring back some memories.

Just back to the Methodists, I have located a picture of the Stonesfield Methodist congregation from around the year 2000:

Now, there are at least 5 Oliver connections in here:

Mildred Oliver (still need to figure out the connection)

Mary and Ron Evins (Mary, nee Barrett, daughter of Hedley and Mabel Barrett, Mabel daughter of Henry and Fanny Hunt (nee Oliver)

Ken Barrett, son of William Ernest and Violet May Barrett (nee Oliver)

Phyllis Morris, daughter of William Ernest and Violet May Barrett (nee Oliver) who married Colin Morris

Struggling to figure out the left to right, back to front approach to the actual faces though as I don't know nor have ever seen any other pictures of any of the above.

Any advice gratefully received!!

Thanks,
Shane

Barb Silvester · Senior Member

Hi Shane and Jane:

I've been thinking about the information on the family of Albert and Mary Elizabeth and finally realised that their children were my Dad's cousins. I remember Bob Woods talking about a David Oliver and I think he lived around Spelsbury or Enstone, but at that time had no idea if he was related or not.

By process of elimination Dempsey must have been the son of Frederick Oliver.

Thanks for all the photos, Shane. These buildings look so beautiful to me, and of course bring back lots of memories.

Thanks for starting this thread Jane. When I started reading it I had no idea where it was going to lead.

Barb

jane · Senior Member

Great to see those photos, Shane. I especially like the 1827 chapel, which is an unusual little building. But did you know that it has an Oliver connection? I discovered this from Volume XI of the 'Victoria County History of Oxfordshire', on the British History Online site. This includes (among much other interesting stuff) a summary of non-conformity in the parish. Here's the part relating to Methodism:

"Houses were registered for Methodist meetings in 1800 and 1802, and in 1808 there were nine or ten Methodists. (fn. 236) There seems to have been no regular preaching until 1825, and in 1827 a small chapel was built by Michael Osborne, whose father, together with David Oliver, another founder of the new chapel, had signed the certificate of 1802. The chapel, which belonged to Witney circuit, had a membership of 15 and a congregation of c. 150. (fn. 237) A Primitive Methodist meeting room was registered in 1846 and a chapel built in 1853. (fn. 238) In 1854 the rector claimed that dissenters timed their services to interfere with those of the parish church, and enticed children from the school. (fn. 239) A new Wesleyan chapel was built in 1867, the old continuing in use as a Sunday school and temperance hall. (fn. 240) In 1869 the rector complained that Dissent was his greatest problem; membership of the chapels may have been only c. 35, but many more parishioners attended nonconformist services. (fn. 241) Congregations diminished in the late 19th century and early 20th, and long before the union of Methodist churches in 1932 the Primitives gave up their chapel. The former Wesleyan chapel remained in use in 1979."

The sources referred to in footnotes 236 and 237 are Oxford diocesan papers (which from their reference numbers I would guess are in the Bodleian, although they may have been transferred to the Record Office) as well as the 1827 'Methodist Magazine'.

-- Edited by jane on Sunday 16th of January 2011 03:11:17 PM

Shane Bywaters · Guru

Hi All,

In terms of Methodism in Stonesfield here are a few visual references.

This first building, at the bottom of Churchfields, is the first small chapel built by the Wesleyan Methodists in in 1826/27 - apparently the certificate of worship from 1827 still exists today.

The Primitive Methodists also tried to hold services in the above chapel but resistance led them to build their own chapel at the top of Peaks Lane in 1855/56 - the original date stone still exists on the building today, which is now a private home.

In 1866 the Wesleyan Methodists purchased a new site at the junction of the High Street and Boot Street and built a new chapel. The old chapel became a Sunday School for many years until recently is was sold as a private home.

Here are two photos of a similar view of the current Methodist Chapel, first in 1912 and then almost 100 years later as it is today.

Thanks
Shane

Shane Bywaters · Guru

Hi Jane,

You're quite right about those 2 additional 'Oliver/Greenway' births being of Albert and Mary.

In fact there were two more children of this marriage, Albert and Mary had nine children in total.

1923 - Dorothy Oliver
1926 - Iris Winifred Oliver
1928 - Elizabeth Oliver
1930 - Albert George Oliver
1932 - Christine Oliver
1933 - Michael J. Oliver
1938 - Marie Irene Oliver,
1940 - David Oliver
1942 - Caroline Oliver

Sadly, I do know that two of girl's died very very young.

Dorothy's death registration can be found on FREEBMD 1st Qtr 1923 (but I can't locate it at all on Ancestry, the nearest is a Dorothy Reynolds, Reynolds was the married name of one of Albert's sister's who may have been the informant, so may be a transcription error?)

Christine also died very young, under 1, and her death is registered in the 2 Qtr 1933.

I guess David (b.1940) and Caroline (b. 1942) also had Methodist baptisms, just not within the Witney circuit.

Thanks,
Shane

jane · Senior Member

Yes, that's right, Shane: my first introduction to the Oliver family was when Marie and her daughter asked my advice on tracing their family tree. After a little bit of delving in the census, up popped Naughty Edward . . . in his second home in Oxford Gaol. It is always a little nerve-wracking having to explain to people that they have criminal ancestors, but Marie and family seemed to take it quite well.

So there was quite a sense of déjà vu when we found that Edward Oliver and Lydia Willis were your ancestors too!

I haven't seen Marie & co. for a long time: I think they live somewhere in the Bloxham area?

Re. her parents, I see that Albert Oliver married Mary E. Greenway in the last quarter of 1922. It looks like they had another child, Dorothy, before the ones whose baptisms I've found (her birth was registered in the first quarter of 1923, Chipping Norton district). Also, a Michael J. Oliver with mother's maiden name Greenway was born in Oxford in 1933. I wonder if he could be another sibling? Or was there another Oliver/Greenway couple in Oxfordshire?

-- Edited by jane on Saturday 15th of January 2011 08:58:43 AM

Shane Bywaters · Guru

Hi Jane,

Only just realised that the batch of 5 Olivers below are very close to my own line.

Albert was my own great-grandfathers brother.

That also means that he was Barbs grandmother May's brother too - so I guess Barb's great Uncle.

Albert, Frank and May were all children of 'naughty Edward' and Lydia.

In fact, I think you've even met the last lady in the list of 5!

Iris Winifred Oliver, dau of Albert and Mary Eliz(abeth), of Fulwell nr Enstone, b & bapt 1926 (at Stonesfield)

Elizabeth Oliver dau. of Albert and Mary Elizabeth of Lower Kidlington, b. & bapt 1928 (at Witney)

Albert George Oliver son of Albert and Mary Elizabeth of Arthur’s Lodge, near Woodstock, b. & bapt 1930 (at Witney)

Christine Oliver, dau of Albert and Mary Elizabeth of Arthur’s Lodge, near Woodstock, b. & bapt 1932 (at Witney)

Marie Irene Oliver, dau of Albert and Mary Elizabeth of Wootton, b & bapt 1938

Thanks
Shane

Barb Silvester · Senior Member

Hi Shane:

I remember Bernard and Kathleen very well indeed. Often played with Kathleeen at their farm down the bottom of the village (roughly where you were when you took the photo of Stonesfield in December). I think Bernard still lives in Stonesfield, so there would be another good person for you to contact.

Barb

Shane Bywaters · Guru

Hi Barb,

You couldn't have been more spot with the children of Edith Constance and Wilfred Thomas; Bernard and Kathleen were born in 45 and 47 and then Rachel and Andrew were exactly a decade later, 55 and 57 - brilliantly well remembered - did you know these 4 people when you were growing up?

I've created a new thread called 'Barretts/Olivers' with some more info on the tree for this part of the family and some great photo's of the Barrett men (from 1953) so that might bring back some memories too.

Thanks
Shane

Barb Silvester · Senior Member

Hi Shane:

Unfortunately I can't verify the husbands names or dates of the marriages for the three Oliver girls (Julia, Stephanie and Kathleen), but I think they probably are right.

The marrige of Edith Constance Oliver to Wilf Barrett caught my eye, however. Not sure if this is the correct family, but try Bernard, Kathleen, Rachel and Andrew for their children. Bernard and Kathleen would have been born in the 1940s and Rachel and Andrew about a decade later.

If this is the correct family, where does Edith's father Ernest fit into the family tree?

Barb

jane · Senior Member

Hi again Shane

I'm sure that's the right marriage: in fact FreeBMD shows Alfreda's middle initial as M and in the scanned image of the GRO index it definitely is an M. Another black mark for Ancestry, methinks!

Shane Bywaters · Guru

Hi Jane,

I think you could be right about Pastor Oliver.

I have located the following marriage:
Frederick J Oliver and Alfreda W Taylor, Jul-Aug-Sep 1939, Stroud, Gloucestershire (the W doesn't match with Margaret but it fits otherwise)

and the the birth registrations of two daughters:
Gillian M in 1940, and
Judith EM in 1942, both in Oxfordshire, both mothers maiden name Taylor

However, there doesn't seem to be any suitable births of a Frederick J Oliver/Frederick John Oliver in Oxfordshire - not that I have located yet at least, and the most suitable birth for Alfreda W/M Taylor certainly doesn't seem to be in Oxfordshire either.

The marriage location and the 1950's clipping all seem to concur will a life on the move don't they, and just a coincidence with the name.

Thanks,
Shane

jane · Senior Member

Barb, your knowledge of Stonesfield is invaluable so thanks for adding your memories: so much history is not written down at all but just in people's heads. Keep the memories coming!

Shane, I had forgotten all about that Pastor F.J. Oliver. He may well not be a local man, for Methodist ministers were moved around quite often I believe.

I have a sad update on Eva Anna Oliver. Her birth was registered (as Eva Hannah Oliver) in the Woodstock district in the last quarter of 1882. Her absence from subsequent censuses (and from the 'Fantastic Family Photo') was rather ominous, so I guessed she may have died young. I'm sorry to report that this is the case: the death of 2 year old Eva Hannah Oliver was registered in the first quarter of 1885.

Shane Bywaters · Guru

Hi Barb,

You certainly look right on the third sister Kathleen, all daughters of Stanley Francis and Mildred Emily (nee Rowles).

Wondering if any of any of these sound accurate if you recall them at all?

Julia Ann Oliver, marrying Robert R Newell, 1962
Stephanie Joy Oliver, marrying Bryan A M Smith, 1965
Kathleen M Oliver, marrying Paul R P Albert, 1968

Those look like likely marriage's from a quick scan of the records.

Thanks,
Shane

Shane Bywaters · Guru

Hi Jane,

Thanks very much for this.

This entry has jogged an old item on my to-do-list:

Judith Elizabeth Mary Oliver, dau of Frederick John & Alfreda Margaret of Long Handborough, b & bapt 1942

In a previous thread you also posted a couple items:

R.E.Oliver at Witney Grammar School

(ii) Edith Constance Oliver (then of Kingswood Farm, Woodstock) married Wilfred Thomas Barrett at STONESFIELD Methodist Church in late September 1943. The 'Oxford Times' of 8 October 1943 gives details: 'The bride wore a gown of white satin and carried a bouquet of red carnations.' Her bridesmaids were none other than Miss Ruth Oliver together with Joyce Gardener and Jean Tidmarsh. Mr Headley Barrett was best man. Interestingly the service was conducted by a Pastor Oliver.*

*An F.J. Oliver was first Pastor of the HANBOROUGH Methodist Churchaccording to a history of that church in a scrapbook of Methodist-related newspaper cuttings at Witney & District Museum. He was there throughout the Second World War. By the time of the cutting (probably mid-1950s) he was in Stratford on Avon. Before his arrival the Hanborough Methodist church (and I guess also the Stonesfield one) were in the care of Witney Methodist ministers.

Putting togther the fact that Judith Elizabeth Mary Oliver, dau of Frederick John & Alfreda Margaret had a Methodist baptism and an F.J. Oliver was first Pastor of the HANBOROUGH Methodist Church I'm guessing the two are linked - importantly this new information i.e. his wife and daughters names, should help place him and see if/where he fits in this Oliver family.

I'll be back!

Thanks,
Shane

Barb Silvester · Senior Member

Hi Jane:

The last two Olivers you have listed (Julia and Stephanie) had a sister Kathleen. They lived down Woodstock Road in Stonesfield during the 1950's and 1960's. I think Julia still lives in Stonesfield, but I don't know her married name.

I don't know if this important or of any interest, but thought I would add it - just in case!

Barb

jane · Senior Member

It is easy to forget that many of our ancestors were not Anglicans but attended non-conformist chapels of some description. Post-1837 non-conformist records can be hard to track down, but we're fortunate that there's a transcript of Wesleyan Methodist baptisms in the Witney circuit 1837-1951. The circuit evidently included Stonesfield and other Oliver strongholds.

Below are the Olivers I found in Witney Library's copy of the transcript. (The transcript gives full dates of birth/baptism; to save time I have only copied the years.) Unless stated otherwise, the transcript doesn't show the location of the particular Methodist chapel where the baptism took place.

Olivers baptised in Wesleyan Methodist chapels in the Witney Circuit

Three children of Jason and Sarah Oliver of Crawley Road, Hailey, near Witney, all bapt. on the same day in 1869:

Ernest Augustus Henry Algernon Knight Oliver b. 1861 (yes, he really did have all these first names: confirmed by birth registration on FreeBMD)
Sarah Ann Oliver b. 1864
Norah Emma Oliver, b.1868

(On looking for more about this family I discovered they all went off to Canada, so I will start a new thread about them.)

Thomas Hanwell Oliver, son of Albert and Hannah of Stonesfield, b.1878, bapt 1879 (appears in 'Fantastic Family Photo': see link in left-hand menu)

Alice Emily Oliver, dau. of Albert and Hannah of Stonesfield, b. & bapt 1880 (appears in 'Fantastic Family Photo': see link in left-hand menu)

Eva Anna Oliver, dau. of Albert and Anna of Stonesfield, b. 1882, bapt 1883 (since Anna and Hannah are more or less interchangeable, I guess she is a sibling of the above two.)

Heron George Oliver, son of George and Sarah of Stonesfield, b. & bapt 1883,[NB on same day as previous] (when his birth was registered it was with the more conventional first name Aaron! So I guess Aaron sounds like Heron in a West Oxfordshire accent)

Mary Ellen Oliver, dau of William Albert and Annie of Finstock, b. & bapt 1913 (at Finstock)

William Charles Oliver, son of William and Annie of West End, Botley, b. and bapt. 1915 (at Finstock)

Edith Constance Oliver, dau of Ernest Frederick and Ethel Maud of Stonesfield, b & bapt 1917 (at Stonesfield)

Iris Winifred Oliver, dau of Albert and Mary Eliz(abeth), of Fulwell nr Enstone, b & bapt 1926 (at Stonesfield)

Elizabeth Oliver dau. of Albert and Mary Elizabeth of Lower Kidlington, b. & bapt 1928 (at Witney)

Albert George Oliver son of Albert and Mary Elizabeth of Arthur’s Lodge, near Woodstock, b. & bapt 1930 (at Witney)

Christine Oliver, dau of Albert and Mary Elizabeth of Arthur’s Lodge, near Woodstock, b. & bapt 1932 (at Witney)

Marie Irene Oliver, dau of Albert and Mary Elizabeth of Wootton, b & bapt 1938

Judith Elizabeth Mary Oliver, dau of Frederick John & Alfreda Margaret of Long Handborough, b & bapt 1942

Julia Ann Oliver, dau of Stanley Francis and Mildred Emily of Coombe Rd, Stonesfield, b.1942 bapt 1943

Stephanie Joy Oliver, dau of Stanley Francis and Mildred Emily of (Langtons?) Hill, Stonesfield, b & bapt 1946 (at Stonesfield)

There are many other Stonesfield folk in the Methodist transcript. Some I recognised as being linked to the Olivers by marriage (e.g. Woodward, Bayliss, Barrett) so going through these records may be a good way of tracking down some of the descendants through female lines.