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Post Info TOPIC: Stonesfield Brass Band


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RE: Stonesfield Brass Band
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jane wrote:
I don't know if it would be possiible to track him through payments of his army pension . . . I'm not even sure such records have survived.  I'll have a poke around in the National Archives catalogue to see what they say.

The National Archives do have some records of payments to army pensioners but unfortunately not the right dates for tracing Job/Joseph. He is being very elusive on censuses etc. between 1891 and his death registration in 1917. Did he go away from Oxfordshire, but come back to die? Or is he closer to home, but under a different name, or avoiding the census enumerator altogether?   

So far, the only person who looks anything like him in 1901 is in Hinton on the Green, Gloucestershire, where the enumerator found a Joseph Oliver in a barn in Narrow Meadow Lane. This market gardener's labourer is shown as born in Oxford (which might mean Oxfordshire) but he is recorded as 50 years old (which would be more than 5 years out). He is shown as married, so that would suggest he does have a wife somewhere.

I haven't found another Oxfordshire-born Joseph Oliver to account for this one, so might he be the missing Job/Joseph?  If so he has fallen on hard times since the 1890s when he started the brass band. Perhaps he couldn't settle back into family life after all those years travelling with the army?  

Might he also be the Job Oliver who appeared at Winchcombe Petty Sessions in December 1905 charged with obtaining 3¼ lb of bacon at Cutsdean by false pretences? This 'old labourer, of no fixed address' pleaded guilty. He had been in Gloucester Gaol since 18th Dec., which the magistrates decided was sufficient punishment, so he was dismissed with a caution (Gloucester Echo, 29 December 1905).

I see that Gloucestershire Archives have an album of prisoners' photographs for 1899-1915. Job's stay in prison may have been too brief for him to get captured on camera, but perhaps the archives would have more records that would say something about his age or birthplace, to help rule him out or in.

Sorry I am straying off the original topic of the brass band, but the mystery of the disappearance of Job/Joseph was too tantalising to resist.



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Shane Bywaters wrote:
 I don't immediately recognize anyone else through all of their big bushy moustaches!

 

mmm, if there aren't any familiar faces then maybe it's not the Stonesfield band after all? I see on the Finstock Local History Society blog it is just captioned 'Finstock Club Day c.1900'.  Perhaps Shaun Morley would know more about it?

A reply posted on the blog suggests that the man second from left in the photo could be Harry Buckingham of the Finstock band. That wouldn't necessarily mean that the Stonesfield band weren't there too: perhaps they're the ones in uniform? (The Stonesfield band definitely had a uniform - a report of the Stonesfield Benefit Society anniversary in 1894 notes that 'Very efficient music was provided by members of the Stonesfield Brass Band, who looked a smart lot of men in their bright new uniform.')



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jane wrote:

I wonder if this is a photograph of the band started by Job/Joseph Oliver? That photo (copyright of the Finstock Local History Society) was taken in Finstock but according to an article from the Oxford Times from 2008, the band is the Stonesfield Brass Band.


 

Hi Jane,

I had seen that picture before on the Finstock History website but I don't think it mentions that it's the Stonesfield band so I never made the connection, so excellent that you found the Oxford Times article to provide that extra details, thank you!. It's tantalizing isn't it that Job and maybe other Olivers are in there, to date I've not seen a picture of Job to help spot him and I don't immediately recognize anyone else through all of their big bushy moustaches!

Thanks
Shane



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I'm sorry to hear of that too Barb, Ward was Sandra's married name, wife of Keith, and I did find this entry in the latest edition on the Stonesfield Slate.

sandra.jpg

I agree I think she was a big part of the Stonesfield Band for many years and I saw her in one or two band photographs from the 1950's/1960's, sadly I never met her, she descends from Jeese Oliver, brother of Naughty Edward.

Shane



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Hi Everyone:

I've just got back to Canada from a visit to Stonesfield.  When I was there I was sorry to hear that Sandra Bright (don't know her married name!) had passed away.  I think she was a long-time member of Stonesfield Band.  Her mum was Doris Oliver and her dad (Geoffrey Bright) was killed right at the end of WWII.  I think a photo of him has been posted on the website.

Barb



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Hi Linda, it's good to see you again too :)

I very much enjoyed the concert at the last Oliver Family History Day - it certainly seems that the musical genes go back a long way in the Oliver family!

I wonder if this is a photograph of the band started by Job/Joseph Oliver? That photo (copyright of the Finstock Local History Society) was taken in Finstock but according to an article from the Oxford Times from 2008, the band is the Stonesfield Brass Band.



-- Edited by jane on Saturday 2nd of April 2016 04:42:40 PM



-- Edited by jane on Saturday 2nd of April 2016 04:43:26 PM



-- Edited by jane on Saturday 2nd of April 2016 04:46:23 PM



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Hello Jane

Good to hear from you again.  I know as soon as I see your name on the messageboard  that your 'post' will contain another interesting story.  Shane has already mentioned Rachel and I suspect that over the years there have been a few Oliver musicians in the Stonesfield Band and maybe we will hear from some of them now this topic has been started.  

Bye for now - Linda



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Hi Shane! It's good to be back: I had forgotten my log-in details but luckily my laptop hadn't.smile

Thank you for explaining who Mr J. Oliver was.  I'd found the army papers for Joseph but hadn't twigged that he was the same person as Job.

That 1917 death registration does look like him - but where has he been since the 1891 census? Did he just have a job that kept him away from home, or had he and his wife gone their separate ways? It looks like there might still be some mysteries to unravel there.   I have a couple of possible sightings of Joseph/Job after 1900 but if it's him he has fallen on hard times: I will send you details to see what you think.

So far no more sightings of the Stonesfield Brass Band or glee club either: if only more post-1900 Oxfordshire newspapers would be put online! (I shouldn't complain really: I just discovered yesterday that the Banbury Guardian has been added to the British Newspaper Archive, going up to the 1950s; hopefully others will come eventually.)

P.S.  I don't know if it would be possiible to track him through payments of his army pension . . . I'm not even sure such records have survived.  I'll have a poke around in the National Archives catalogue to see what they say.



-- Edited by jane on Friday 1st of April 2016 02:42:00 PM

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Hi Jane!

Really great to read your post, thank you for taking the time to do that

The Mr. J. Oliver in the article is a man with many connections to the stories and people we have discussed on the messageboard and at the Oliver Family History days, we've learned so much that so much seems to be connected these days!

So, Mr. J. Oliver is Joseph 'Job' Oliver and indeed was a military man, just like his father, Waterloo Joseph. His sister was Sophia Oliver who you might recall from your Crime and Punishment talk in 2011 i.e. the smashing of police station windows!, his son was John Joseph Oliver who we have a story on the website about regarding his Cricket successes, his Grandaughter Ruth won a number of awards at Henry Box Grammar School, his Great-Grandson Bernard Barrett will be known to many as a life long Stonesfield inhabitant and on a really nice musical connection note his Great-Grandaughter Rachel was in the band who played at the last Oliver Family History day! So you see, connections everywhere!

Here's a little tree diagram I found:

barrettolivers.jpg

I can see from the diagram I wasn't sure when he died, so I'll need to look into that.

Having talked to Bernard at the last Oliver day it seems it was well known just how much of a military man he was with stories of his long spells away from home and apparently the children seeing very little of him when they were growing up.

Job signed as a Private up in 1868 and served more than 12 years in the East Indies between 1869 and 1882, he was promoted to Lance Corporal in January of 1883 and within just 3 months promoted again to Corporal, a role which he continued for another 4 years until retiring on the 29th March 1887 with 18 years 328 days military service to his name.

On the musical note, interestingly his military service records show that he was appointed Bandsman in 10th May 1874, so that give some background and context to him setting up the Stonesfield Brass Band.

Was interesting to read he part about the glee club too; glee clubs what glee's are was previously unknown to me, so was good to take a look into that.

Job married Elizabeth 'Sophia' Collett and it was just the other day actually that I found this website which had some Oliver related content:

http://www.collettfamilyhistory.net/Part-38-The-Oxford-Stonemasons-Line-(Combe)-Rev.12.htm

Elizabeth S Collett was born at Combe in 1860, although no record of her, or her parents, or her older sister Matilda, have been found in the census the following year.  However, by the time of the census in 1871 Elizabeth Collett of Combe was ten and was living with her parents in her mother’s home village of Stonesfield.  On leaving school she entered into the world of domestic service and was a lady’s maid, working with her older sister Matilda (above) at the home of William C Scott in 1881 when she was 20.  The Scott household at Church Road in Chertsey comprised William Scott aged 30 of London, his wife Ursula K Scott 21 of Clapham and their two months old daughter Katherina Alethia Scott born at Brompton.  Today Church Road runs between the M25 and the Brighton Road (A318).

It therefore looks very much like the two sisters were employed either just before or around the time of the birth of the baby.  In addition to all of these, there were a further two people living at the address and they were Emma Hart, the 26 years old cook and 18 years old footman Charles Hunt.  Charles Hunt was previously known to the two Collett sisters.  He was their cousin from Stonesfield, being the nephew of the girl’s mother who, before marrying their father, was Matilda Hunt.
 
It was during the following year that Elizabeth married the much older Job Oliver who was born at Stonesfield near Combe in 1844.  The couple’s first child was born at Aldershot in Hampshire, but thereafter the family returned to Stonesfield where two more children were added to the family, and where they remained living for the rest of their life.  In 1891 the family at Stonesfield comprised Job Oliver from Stonesfield who was 45, Elizabeth S Oliver from Combe who was 30, and their three children.  They were Ernest Oliver who was seven, John J Oliver who was five, and Matilda H Oliver who was not yet one year old.
 
It may have been during the next decade that Job passed away, since he was absent from the Stonesfield census in both 1901 and 1911.  In the former the family was made up of Elizabeth S Oliver, age 39, who was a dressmaker with her own account, Ernest F Oliver from Aldershot who was 17 and a horseman working on a farm, John J Oliver who was 15 and a stonemason’s assistant, and Matilda C H Oliver who was ten.  On that occasion the family was living at the home of Elizabeth’s parents in Woodstock Road in Stonesfield.  Elizabeth’s mother died at Stonesfield during the years following 1901, at which time her widowed father John and her older unmarried sister Matilda moved in with Elizabeth and her family at Hump Wood Farm in Stonesfield.
 
That situation was confirmed by the next census in 1911 when the occupants of the six-roomed dwelling known as Hump Wood Farm were recorded as: S Elizabeth Oliver from Combe who was a farmer and an employer at the age of 50 who had been married for 28 years with three children all of whom had survived and were living there with her; Ernest F Oliver, age 27 a farmer and an employer from Aldershot; John Joseph Oliver a farmer from Stonesfield who was 25; and Matilda M Oliver who was also from Stonesfield, who was 20 with no stated occupation, so presumably was helping her mother keep house.  The other two occupants were John Collett from Combe who was 88 and described as the father of Elizabeth, and Matilda M Collett, age 54 from Combe who was a lady’s maid and named as the sister of Elizabeth Oliver.

Thanks Jane!

Shane 



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I know that the Stonesfield Brass Band has been mentioned here before, in an article about the opening of the waterworks in 1897, but did you know that an Oliver was involved in setting up the band? I just came across this short piece about the band in Jackson's Oxford Journal of 7 January 1893:

'STONESFIELD BRASS BAND. - This band, under the able leadership of Mr. J. Oliver, which has only been in existence about three months, made its first appearance on the Monday after Christmas.They paraded the village and called at the residences of the principal gentry in the neighbourhood, and the effect of their playing so good a collection of music so well - under the able conductorship of their bandmaster, who is a pensioned military man with an excellent character - simply surprised everyone. We hope they will unite firmly together, and continue their successful career. We are pleased to hear also that Mr. Oliver is combining a glee club with his band, and is doing his very best to make them efficient.'



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