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Post Info TOPIC: Prudence Oliver, Ellis Griffin, Protestant House and more, and how they're all connected ..


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RE: Prudence Oliver, Ellis Griffin, Protestant House and more, and how they're all connected ..
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Hello, I haven't been on the site for a while, but I thought I should let people know that my father just died peacefully at home at the age of 90.

He was a grandson of Ellis and Ellen Griffin.

Harold Griffin

Born in Stonesfield on March 29th 1928, died on May 1st 2018

It would be great if anyone who is in contact with his cousins Philip, Jillian and Caroline Griffin them could let them know.

Many thanks,

Helen



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Any idea what year this photo of Huckins' shop was taken or who the two people are?

I remember the shop from the 1950s and it looked just like this photo with the door to the shop on the left hand side (Church Street) and the shed, barn or garage which was still there in the 1950s, on the right hand side of the photo.  Amy and Les Huckins lived in the house then and Amy ran the shop at that time.  I think her mother, Miriam Shearer, ran the shop before Amy did (possible in the 1930s).  Miriam's maiden name was Griffin and I think one of her brothers was George Griffin, but he married Phyllis Porter and 1931 and Winifred Goves in 1945 so I don't think he's the George Griffin who owned the store.

Barb

 



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Hi Dee,

Thank you for posting this lovely photo. There is similarity between the young lady in the group photo and Ellen Emma (Hunt) Huckins. Especially around the eyes, nose and jaw line.

Ellen Emma poss.jpgEllen Emma (Hunt) .jpg

It would be great to see if there are any other photos that can help.

 

I do have one photo of the siblings, this was a picture sent to me by Bill Hunt in Australia. It is of Hedley & Albert, and was taken in Gladstone, Australia. Unfortunately it is a little grainy, but still a lovely photo. Ignore the year 1911 in the caption as this I believe is an error, especially given the age of the persons in the photo and their attire.

 

Hedley and Alfred Hunt with Edith.jpg

Barb, checking the birth marriage records Leslie F Huckins married Amy H Shearer in 1937, in the district of Chipping Norton in the July – Sept quarter.

 

I know the Huckins had a store not far from the entrance of St James Church, was this run by one of Emma and Harry’s Children? The reason I ask is that before Huckins ran this shop this was in the ownership of George Griffin and Mary Ann Griffin (nee Davis). Mary Ann was Emma & George Hunt’s niece. Below is a picture of the store when owned by the Griffins.

 

 

G Griffin Stores.jpg

Jane, thank you for making me aware of 'Memories of Stonesfield' Facebook group. I rarely go on Facebook, but have submitted a request to join and I am awaiting acceptance. I have a number of old Stonesfield photos that would be great to share, hopefully helping to put memories, names to some of them.

Whilst looking for the Memories of Stonesfield Facebook group page it also came up with similar suggestions. One of them was the Oxfordshire Social History Facebook Page. Fascinating photos! 

Best regards

Mervyn



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This is a very interesting thread with such precious photos.  How lovely to see the doll's pram and dolls in the family photo.  You rarely get to see toys included from that time.

Dee, I don't know if Elsie Hunt's maiden name was Pratley but she was very good friends with a Mrs. Pratley, who also lived on Church Street, across the road from Bert and Elsie and about 100 yards closer to the manor.  They went to church together and it's quite possible they were related.

Do you know if your grandmother's brother, Leslie, married Amy Shearer?  Leslie and Amy had 3 daughters, Dawn, Wendy and Rachel.  Wendy and Rachel still live in the village.

I'm looking forward to reading more about this family.

Barb

 



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Thanks Mervyn for posting an old photo of Hunt/Davis, one of them Ellen Emma Hunt was my GGrandmother who married to Harry Huckins. Do they have any more photos of siblings?

Do anyone remember Emma & Harry Huckins 12 children: Barnard c1891, Albert 1895 both died very young I dont know what happened to them, Robert Hedley 1900, Reginald 1901, Lizzie c1903, Rose c1904, Winnie c1905, Herbert 1906, Wilfred 1907, My Grandmother Muriel 1909, Leslie 1911, Bernard c1911, Amy 1916 and Myra 1918. My Grandmother Muriel Huckins moved to Longore ground flat in Stonesfield  in 1985's.

My G Grandparents Ellen Emma (Hunt) and Harry Huckins

Image may contain: 2 people, people smiling, people standing

 

Thanks so much Jane for some information's about Hunt who emigrated to Australia. I find it's very interesting to read your message.

 

Barb -  Elsie Hunt married to George Herbert (Bert),  was her maiden name Pratley?  Yes Brian, Barry and Paul are my mother's cousins. 

 

Kind Regards Dee 



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Hello again Mervyn

Thank you for posting that picture of Sarah Hanks (née Davis): I can see what you mean about the nose. The little girl in the other photo does look similar, I agree, but without a firm date for that photo it makes it hard to decide if it's the same person or just a family resemblance. It's so frustrating that there's no label . . . a lesson to us all to add captions to our photographs! As you say, hopefully someone will recognise their relations in the group photo. (Perhaps you could post it in Shane's 'Memories of Stonesfield' Facebook group to get a wider audience?)

Talking of that group, I've just had a trawl through looking at the school photos and found a lovely one posted just over a year ago, 8 January 2017. The resolution's not quite high enough to be sure, but the girl standing in front of the male teacher looks rather like one of the girls in your photo. The person who posted it didn't say what date it is, but it looks like it's postcard-format which would date it to the early part of the 20th century. Those smocks again!

I'll keep looking for clues . . . 

Best wishes

Jane



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Hi Jane,

Just noticed a typo, should have said Sarah Hanks (nee Davis)

 

Best regards 

Mervyn 

 

 



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Hi Jane,

Thank you for your reply, the link was very interesting. Do not worry about throwing a spanner!, it is good to test theories. Unfortunately there is no clues on the back of the photo, but one clue is the young girl in the bottom left of the group photo.

The girl in the group photo has a very distinctive ridge on her nose and the area around her eyes is also very distinctive. Though I am not a facial expert, the older person below has similar features around her eyes and has distinctive ridge on her nose. Could it be the same person?

 

 If this is the same person, I can confirm that the person on the right hand side is Sarah Hunt (nee Davis). Sarah was born in 1879 and the right hand picture was taken in 1923. What do you think?

sarah hanks 3.jpgSarah hanks 2.jpg

    

It would be good to find out who they all are, even if my theory is not correct. Hopefully somebody has images of them in their collection to help in deciphering this image.

Thank you again for your help.

Best regards

Mervyn

 

 

 



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What a lovely photograph, Mervyn: thank you for sharing it. I especially like the dolls and little pram.

My first thought about the date was that the girls' smocks (maybe school uniform?) look too modern for 1883. I've been looking for other photos of known date to compare the costumes. One here from Cambridgeshire 1903 has some similiar smocks: http://st-neots.ccan.co.uk/content/catalogue_item/st-neots-church-school-1903-31-children-2-teachers-snemu-1995-1-2-22

A bit closer to home, here's one here from Freeland, only roughly dated to c.1900-1910: http://oxfordshirelocalhistory.modhist.ox.ac.uk/siteimages/Freeland%20school%20class.jpg

The hairstyle of the young woman in your photo looks more Edwardian too, I think. But I'm not at all an expert on the history of clothes or hairstyle so please feel free to contradict me! Is the back of the photograph completely blank, or is there anything that might give more clues as to the date? 

Best wishes and apologies for throwing a spanner in the works

Jane



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Hi 

Just been reading the thread, I can confirm that Les & Dot were related to Bert and Elsie Hunt.

George Herbert had a younger brother called Joseph Leslie Hunt. Joseph married Florence Dore in 1915 (April - June Quarter) and had a son called Leslie A Hunt born the same year in the July -September quarter. Leslie A Hunt married Dorothy Tennant in 1936. Les was Bert & Elsie's nephew.

Below is a picture that may be of interest.

Hunt Family Photo.jpg

This is a picture I have found in a family collection I had access to recently. It was un-named but I believe I have worked out who all of the persons are.

The clue was the older lady, she had a strong family resemblance to a person I have seen an image of. It was an image shared by Shane of her sister Mary Oliver (nee Davis) who married Richard Barrett Oliver and moved to Vancouver Island.

I believe the older lady in this picture is Emma Davis who married George Hunt and who ran the bakery in Boot Street, Stonesfield in the second half of the 19th Century and the beginning of the 20th Century. 

If I am correct then the persons in this picture are:

Left to right: Back row Emma Hunt (nee Davis) , Hedley Hunt, George Hunt, Alfred Hunt

Middle Row: Ada Ellen Hunt, Ellen Emily Hunt , Edith Agnes Hunt

 

Front Row: Sarah Davis (Married Jack Hanks (the hurdle maker) – Emma & George’s niece), Sarah Hannah Hunt and George Herbert Hunt. 

This picture would have been taken approx 1883 and I believe is in the yard of the Bakery in Boot Street. The ages of the persons at the time this picture was taken does fit the Hunt family at that time and their niece Sarah Davis. 

The picture was in a collection owned by a descendent of Sarah Davis.

I know that Edith Hunt and Sarah Hunt both emigrated to Canada. Edith married Frederick Churcher, they departed for Montreal, Canada with their daughter Muriel on 26 August 1905 from London on the SS Sarmatian. They had three further children, Fred jnr, Edith and Dorothy. Shortly after the birth of Dorothy in 1910 in Guelph, Ontario, Canada, it appears that she had a form of post partum depression, or some other mental illness, and sadly was committed to a local institution where she sadly died not long after her admission. There is a record that describes her death as "Exhaustion of Mania." 

Both Emma Hunt (nee Davis) and Mary Oliver (nee Davis) lived long lives, both died in 1937, Emma was 93 years old and Mary 91 years old. I have always wondered if they corresponded with each other, especially as they were the last of their generation and exchanged photographs. 

I have not found any secondary photographs other than of Sarah Davis when she was older. It would be amazing to fully confirm with secondary photos what I believe is the Hunt Family, the bakers of Boot Street.

Best regards

Mervyn

 

 



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I remember Bert and Elsie Hunt.  I think they lived on Church Street (the road that becomes Brook Lane as you turn right onto Churchfields).  They might have been related to Les Hunt and his wife Dot.  Les and Dot had 3 sons, Brian, Barry and Paul born around the late 1930's to late 1940's.  I think the sons still live in or around Stonesfield.  I hope this helps.

Barb

 



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As promised I've been looking for George Herbert Hunt. He was still with his parents in Stonesfield in 1911. A 'HUNT George Herbert otherwise Bert of Beech House Stonesfield Oxfordshire' died 30 July 1960 according to the National Probate Calendar. Probate was granted at Oxford on 7 November the same year to Elsie Hunt, widow. There is a corresponding death registration for a 79 year old George H. Hunt in the Chipping Norton district in the third quarter of 1960, which would be the right age for your George. You could get a copy of his will to see if it gives any clues about other family members.

From the probate calendar it appears that he was known not as George or as Herbert but as Bert. That explains my difficulty finding him on the 1939 Register. When you look instead for a Bert Hunt, up pops one born 1880 who was in the Chipping Norton Rural District (which I think covered Stonesfield).  So it looks like he stayed in England . . . or if he did emigrate he came back again.



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Hi Dee and Happy New Year to you too

A 19 year old "Headley" Hunt, born in Oxfordshire, emigrated on the 'Quetta' in 1889 according to the 'Assisted immigration 1848-1912 index' on the Queensland Archives website. Digital images of some passenger lists for the 'Quetta' are online here: http://www.archivessearch.qld.gov.au/Image/DigitalImageDisplay.aspx?ImageId=39213. Scroll down to p.327 to see "Headley". Interestingly there is an 18 year old Thomas Hunt with him, also born in Oxfordshire. Perhaps a cousin? Or is he Hedley's younger brother Alfred in disguise?

Certainly both Hedley Vickers Hunt and Alfred Edward Hunt did end up in Queensland: you can find their death registrations in the index of Queensland deaths at https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/queryEntry.m?type=deaths  The index entries give their parents' names, which confirms that they were the brothers from Stonesfield.

There are birth indexes (only up to 1918) and marriage indexes on the same site. From these it appears that Hedley Vickers Hunt married an Edith MILLWARD in 1904; she'd probably been married before, as her surname is given as TIMM in her children's birth records. I can see birth registrations for four of their children between 1908 and 1917 including a Hedley Vicars Hunt junior and George Frederick Hunt. Some trees also have a son Alfred August Hunt born about 1906. I can't see an obvious birth registration for him in the Queensland index but perhaps it has got garbled. 

Lots of Australian newspapers can be searched and viewed free(!!!) on the wonderful Trove website, https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/  Here there are several references to Hedley Hunt (presumably Hedley junior) as a cricketer in the 1930s. There's also a newspaper announcement in 1933 of the marriage of George Frederick Hunt; his brother Hedley Hunt was the best man. Confusingly, the bridegroom is described as the son of Mr G. H. Hunt and the late Mrs Hunt of Parson's Point.  So did George Herbert Hunt also emigrate and also have sons called George Frederick Hunt and Hedley Hunt? It seems more likely that these are in fact the sons of Hedley V. Hunt senior. So far I have not found any other reference to George Herbert Hunt, at least not in Queensland: I will have another look later.

You might be able to contact some Australian relations via this website: http://www.beresford.org.au/history/gen/tree/1708.htm

The site owner seems to be connected with the TIMM family not the Hunts, but there is a copy of an old e-mail there from a Bill Hunt who is descended from Hedley. Sadly it sounds as if Edith died soon after the birth of the youngest child in 1917. Perhaps you could try that e-mail address, or try contacting the site's owner via the 'Email Rob' link at the top of the page.

There are quite a lot of Queensland records on Ancestry (electoral rolls and other stuff) but I don't have a worldwide sub so can't see them. You could try your local library in case they have access? 

Hope this helps

Best wishes

Jane

 



-- Edited by jane on Wednesday 10th of January 2018 11:51:55 AM

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Hi Jane,

Happy New Year

Thank you for reply with so much information. I dont have Ancestry only use on Gene Reunited Family Tree.

I presumed they never had Miriam, doesn't seem to be children, if he went out looking for work in Canada 2 months after they married and she didnt went then he went to war very little chance of children. They probably gone their seperate ways.  Yes James had a young brother Joseph. He is one of 10 children.  Yes Winifred married to John Bowins in 1933.

And also hope if you can help with this answer.  I know one of James's brother Hedley V Hunt who migrated to Australia around in 1899/1990 and I believe that one of his brother went with him but I doubt which brothers whom went with him either Alfred or George Hunt. I doubt that one of their grandaughter Lesley Hunt was tennis champion in Australia.

 

Kind Regards

 

Dee



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Hi Dee. I've been doing a little digging but without much success I'm afraid. Here are my musings anyway, in case anything helps.

James could be the 27 year old James Hunt (married, but travelling alone) who arrived in Quebec in June 1911 according to a Canadian passenger list on FamilySearch. He had previously been in Ontario for three and a half years and this time was going to Victoria BC. His intended occupation in Canada was plasterer. 

Is he also the James Hunt (29) who with Joseph Hunt (23) arrived in Liverpool on 6 Nov 1913 on the 'Empress of Britain' from Quebec? Both were plasterers. 

I haven't spotted Winifred going out to join him in Canada or coming back again, but will keep looking. Of course maybe she never went. It's notable that no wife is mentioned in his CWGC entry and in the 'Register of Soldiers' Effects' on Ancestry his sole legatee is given as his mother, Emma. So perhaps he and Winifred had gone their separate ways by then? 

As I expect you've seen from Ancestry trees, Winifred remarried in the 1930s to John W. Bowins. Perhaps it would be worth getting a copy of her will to see if she mentions any children? Probate was granted in 1962 to Ernest Bowins who was presumably her stepson, born in 1911. (I don't know if it's coincidence or not but there's a marriage of an Ernest Bowins & Miriam Oliver in 1936 in the Wycombe district.) 



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I found out that James John Hunt b, 1884 married to Winifred Dora J S Busby around end of April.  The census was on April 2nd and their marriage on 22nd  April 1911 as the banns were read on 2nd, 9th and 16th. James John is listed on the banns as being from Stonesfield. 

 And I was told that they had a daughter Miriam born in 1911 but I cant find on BMD. I dont know whether if his wife Winifred went to Canada with James two weeks after their married?

 

James John Hunt, his parents George Hunt & Emma Davis from Stonesfield.

 

Hope anyone can help whereabouts James J Hunt and Winifred Dora J S busby's daughter Miriam born in 1911.

Kind Regards

Dee Wilkes



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Thank you Jane ,

 

I got it, it was correct his parents were George and Emma Hunt and I presumed that James John Hunt never married?

 

Best Wishes

Dee



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Dee wrote:

Hi I noticed James Hunt died in The Great War on Stonesfield Memorial, I wonder which year James Hunt born?  My family side are Hunt/Huckins


Hello Dee and welcome :)

You can see some army papers for James Hunt on Ancestry in their "British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920" collection. Though it says WWI in fact his papers go back to March 1902 when he first enlisted. He was then aged 18 years and 3 months, which puts his date of birth as about January 1884. There is a birth registration in the Woodstock district, Q1 1884, for a James Hunt with mother's maiden name Davis, which would fit with him being the son of George & Emma. That's confirmed by the next-of-kin info in the army papers: 

James Hunt next of kin.JPG

 

There's much more info in this set of papers too, including some correspondence about him asking permission to go to Canada (before WWI). 

NB just to confuse everyone, Ancestry has transcribed the regiment wrong: he was in the Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry but they have put Bedfordshire.

 

Hope this helps

Jane

 



-- Edited by jane on Tuesday 11th of April 2017 09:30:53 AM

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Hi I noticed James Hunt died in The Great War on Stonesfield Memorial, I wonder which year James Hunt born?  My family side are Hunt/Huckins



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One branch of the tree that is still very much a mystery and undiscovered as far as this thread goes is the line of Miriam's third child, her daughter Mabel.

We do know that she married in 1946 to a John R M Hewitt in Kent and having completing a little digging into the line its in Kent that Mabel and John appear to have raised there own family and indeed where I think there may still be descendants today.

Here's a little tree diagram, if any of this rings bells for folks in this line please chime in..

mabel_kent1.jpg

Mabel M Shearer b.1921 d.1987
m. 1946 John R M Hewitt

   Kathryn M V Hewitt b.1947
   m. Kelvin A F Thornton-Margetts

   Verity J Hewitt b.1950 
   m. 1970 William N Gill

     Verity Rebecca Gill b.1971
     Nathan John Gill b.1974
     Jordan Hendrie Gill b.1982

  John R Hewitt b.1956
  m.1978  Christine M Shepherd

    Gareth John Hewitt b.1981
    Robert Andrew C Hewitt b.1983

 

Thanks,
Shane



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From the Witney Gazette in 1969, reports of two Weddings from this family line:

Miss Jennifer Lyn Wastie

The wedding took place on Saturday at the Boot Street Methodist Chapel, Stonesfield, of Miss Jennifer Lyn Wastie, daughter of Mr. and Mrs. R. Wastie of Sher-Wae, Woodstock Road, Stonesfield, and Mr. Raymond John Hare, youngest son of Mr. and Mrs. A. Hare of 83 Westfield Road Witney.

1969_Wedding_1.jpg

 

Miss Rachel Huckins

The wedding took place on Saturday at the Stonesfield Mothodist Church of Miss Rachel Huckins, youngest daughter of Mr. and Mrs. L. F. Huckins, The Cross, Stonesfield, and Mr. Michael John Watson, elsder son of Mrs. and the laste Mr. T. M. Walton of 6 Nineacres Lane, Charlbury, Oxford.

The bridesmaids, Dawn Temple (Brides sister), Natalie Shearer, and Alison Holford wore full length pink printed cotton dresses trimmed with lace.

1969_Wedding_2.jpg



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Sitting at the top of this story we find Prudence Griffin nee Oliver and her wonderful act of kindness that had far reaching effects on the families and descendants that followed. But of course one step further up the tree we come to Solomon, Prudence's father, who probably has one of the most interesting lives of all our ancestors. Here is a link to a fascinating story of crime and punishment from his life http://www.oliverfamilyhistory.co.uk/v4/stories/solomon-and-joshua-bermuda-transportation.htm

front_sol.jpg

 



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Here is a link to another thread on the messageboard regarding the 'Stonesfield Dramatic Society', where we've tracked a number of the performances (so far) from 1958 to 1968:

http://oliverfamilyhistory.activeboard.com/t62142392/stonesfield-dramatic-society/

Interesting to see some connections with this family line included in those involved; Dawn Huckins, Michael Goves and Elsie Barrett (formally Griffin, nee Pittock) 



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Just a thought...from Helen's comment that her dad didn't think his parents were together in 1921...I was wondering if the family photo was taken around 1923 or so.  If that was the case then the little boy on the left of the photo (number 14) could be Harold Shearer (born in 1922), Miriam and Duncan's son.  If it is Harold then maybe number 13 could be Mabel, number 12 Kathleen and number 11 Amy.  If that is the case then maybe the man on the left (I think Miriam has an arm around his shoulders) is her husband Duncan with baby Harold on his lap.  

Barb



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Hi - just reporting back after showing my dad the photos of Ellis and Ellen and family and Miriam and George etc. He was thrilled of course! Firstly he said in the photo attached here, sitting next to George, he thought is was "Lella" (Phyllis) George's first wife. He had never seen a photo of her before but seemed certain it was her  - presumably Brian and Caroline would know it was Winnie. Either way its interesting that she and Winnie must have looked alike! Secondly he said the family photo would have been a bit later than 1921 as his parents didn't marry til 1925 and they weren't together for 4 years before marriage, although he doesn't have the exact date they became a couple. Hope that's helpful! The gravestones are amazing - very unusual to have both their former spouses on one stone - precious!

geo5.jpg



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I'd like to add my congratulations to you, Shane, on your 500th post.  It is, of course, only the tip of the iceberg of all the research you do for this website and message board.  I really appreciate all the work which goes into this.  Thanks so much. 

Barb



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What a lovely finding for your 500th post, Shane!  I've certainly never seen a gravestone like that, commemorating two former spouses together.

Many congratulations on all the hard work you've put into the messageboard and the rest of the Oliver website. It's turned into a really super resource for family history. Here's to the next 500 !



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win_tree.jpg

As I walked through the Stonesfield Churchyard earlier this week some wonderful bright and colourful flowers caught my eye, and it was lovely to see that it was the gravestone of George and Winifred reunited, beautifully cared for by their loved ones.

griffingrave1.jpg

Close by I also discovered another gravestone, one that I must have passed several times previously but didn't know of the relevance, and its a gravestone where George's first wife Phyllis and Winifred's first husband Alfred are remembered, together, what an amazing thing that George and Winifred did right there.

griffingave2.jpg

Both a these gravestones made an altogether heartwarming few moments, and with this being my 500th post to a messageboard all about family, I think the subjects of these photographs symbolize family, love, care perfectly.

Thanks!

Shane



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Hi All,

As part of pulling together this family story we have discovered the family of George and Winifred Griffin, as per the diagram below. Of course I was fortunate enough to meet Brian and Caroline a few months back.

win_tree.jpg 

I found a few sporting references to M(ichael) Goves in the Witney Gazette from the 1958/1959 football season:

mgoves1.jpg

mgoves3.jpg

mgoves4.jpg

So it's seems to have been a pretty good season for Michael with plenty of goals scored, though Michael (or it could equally be his brother Brian) appears to have had a bit of a tough match against Charlbury with a cut above the eye and a collision with Charlbury's goalie!

mgoves2.jpg

I also see its mentions that an Oliver 'secured goal no'4', I wonder was that Oliver was? Hope we can find out.

OK, just a few more snippets there.

Thanks
Shane

 



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Hi Helen,

Glad you enjoyed those little gems, they're are all really lovely aren't they, and any information you can add would be much appreciated.

Yes, I think you're correct about George Collier, I had a quick look this morning and found the following passenger list entry:

Name: George Collier
Age: 20
Birth Year: abt 1870
Place of Origin: Oxfordshire, England
Ship Name: Dacca
Port of Departure: London, England
Port of Arrival: Brisbane
Arrival Date: 6 Jan 1890

I couldn't see him marrying or dying in Australia so wondered whether he came back, but I couldn't find a return passenger list entry (it probably is in the records somewhere, maybe in some garbled state that means it not surfacing quickly!)

But then I found the following in the online tree of ''Amanda_louise1' which shows the correct Fathers name and occupation:

georgecollier.jpg

Its seems that George and Hannah had three children together, but then sadly Hannah died in 1902 aged just 26. George then remarried and had a further two children.

There does appear to be a good deal of information, documents and pictures within various trees around this branch online if you were interested in looking further.

Thanks!

Shane



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Hi again Shane,

I just found out that Ellen's brother George Collier must have been one of very few who decided to come back to the UK after the shipwreck - and he went on to settle in Cheshire and raise a family. His sister Annie is staying with him in the 1901 census. I also just noticed the question marks on the list of cousins on the lovely photo - I'll ask my dad if he knows which girl is which. Any ideas if the photo was taken at a particular special occasion or anniversary? I am pretty sure Arthur and Elsie wouldn't have been married yet, as you say - I'll try and confirm that too.

All the best,

Helen. 

 



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Hi Shane and Russell,

I've just discovered all these treasures - wow! I can definitely confirm that number 8 in the lovely photo is my granny Elsie (nee Pittick). Also - how wonderful to see the entries in the family bible, or great granny Ellen's bible. Apparently I was named after her, which makes it even more special! I have just been researching the footnote about her brother George Collier who emigrated to Australia and was on the ill fated ship the Dacca which went down in 1890 - everyone survived, so maybe he has descendants in Australia?  Also it's lovely to see Granny's name in the Mothers' Union book - thanks again Shane for all your amazing research! I will show my dad the photos when I see him next week - he'll be so thrilled!

Helen.



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Hi All,

Here's something that provides a nice little window into a bit of the social history of Stonesfield.

I recently discovered that a Register from the Stonesfield Branch of the Mothers Union exists in archives, covering a small period from 1930 - 1934.

I'll look to create a fuller article for the website providing some background to the Mothers Union (a group which incidentally still exists today) and show a few of the entries as there were several 'Mothers' of family interest to us that were members during this period.

Specifically for this branch of the Griffin's down from Prudence Oliver we find that Elsie Griffin (nee Pittock, wife of Arthur Griffin) was briefly a member in the latter half of 1930:

mu1.jpg

mu2.jpg

We can see from the family tree that Elsie and Arthur had started their family around this time, indeed with the daughter Lorna being born in 1930, so perhaps the Union and the other Mothers within the village were of support as Elsie's family was starting to grow.

elsietree.jpg

Thanks

Shane



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Hi Russell:

Hi Russell:

Thanks for e-mail.  Best thing to happen this week.  Nice to correspond with cousin with similar interest.

 

I don’t really have much on Kerr in Scotland.  John Kerr married Charlotte Garden in Rathven.  They have 2 sons Adam and John born in Rathven. 

Adam migrated to Canada.  I have vital stats on 500 offspring.  Probably of no interest to you.

John stayed in Scotland.  Married Isobell Rannie.  Had 5 daughters.

Dau 1 married James McQueen.  One child.

Dau 2 married James Rae.  9 children, umpteen gch.

Dau 3 died early.

Dau 4 see her in census at age 4, 14, 24.

Dau 5 your grandmother.

 

John was a sailor.  I don’t know if he was in Navy or Merchant Marine.  He was not at home for 1851, 1861 and 1871 census. Canadian folklore has him coming ashore near Chatham NB to see his older brother Adam?

 

Here is write–up on John:

John Kerr (1807-b4 1873)

 

John is #2 son of John Kerr and Charlotte Garden.  He was born 13 February 1807 in Rathven Banffshire Scotland.  He was christened 17 May 1807 witnesses John Forbes in Broom and John Bennet in Plastidubs.  He was merchant navy seaman.  He married Isobel Rannie 11 November 1838 in Rathven Banffshire.  Isobel was born in Mortlach Banffshire.  They have 5 daughters.  John died before 14 June 1873 when #5 daughter Isabella married George Shearer. 

Children:

Elizabeth Carr  b 1 January 1839 c 10 Feb 1939 Grange Banffshire

Ann Ker b 26 Feb 1842 c 20 March 1842 Grange Banffshire

Isabella1 Kerr b 20 April 1845 c 18 May 1845 Grange Banffshire

Helen Kerr b 1847 Grange Banffshire

Isabella Kerr  b 1850 d 1926.  Notice daughters #3 & #5 were both named Isabella.

John served in Merchant Marine and one time visited his brother Adam in Miramichi NB.

1851 Grange Banffshire census:

Kerr     Isabella            38 head            pauper agriculture labourer

            Elizabeth         12 dau             scholar

            Anne                 9 dau

            Hellen                4 dau

            Isabella            10 months

1861 Grange Banffshire census:
Kamaie Isabella           51 head           

Kerr     Elizabeth         22 dau

            Ann                 19 dau

            Hellen              14 dau             Ag Lab

            Isabella            10 dau

1871 Fordyce Banffshire census:

Kerr     Isabella            60 head            laundress

Helen               24 dau             dress maker



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Hi Kerr

It's good to hear from you.  Thanks for taking the trouble to get in touch. 

I would be very interested in seeing what you have on the Kerrs.  It's the one ancestral line I've had most difficultly in taking back. I have John Kerr as Isabella's father from her marriage certificate but I've not been able to find out anything more about him. 

I'm also fascinated by the hospital connection.  The fact that one of Duncan and Miriam's children died in infancy is new to me. 

I will be in touch again shortly.  I'm equally happy to share anything. 

With my best wishes dear cousin! 

Russell 



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What a co-incidence.  My sisters and I were born in same hospital as the children of Duncan Shearer and  Miriam Griffin and about the same time.

 

Misericordia Hospital Winnipeg MB Canada

 

5/14/1916 Amy Helen Shearer

         1918 child died before 1921 census

3/18/1920 Kathleen Florence Mabel Shearer

3/27/1921 Mabel Mildred Shearer

 

10/31/1919 Mary Elizabeth Godfrey

08/10/1921 William Kerr Godfrey

03/05/1923 Kathleen Godfrey

03/05/1923 Margaret Godfrey



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Note to Russell:

Hi Russell:

We are cousins.  The linkage is 2 brothers – Adam and John Kerr.

 

Adam Kerr b 1801 Rathven Banffshire Scotland 

 

John Kerr b 1807 same place

 

Adam has grand daughter Charlotte Kerr b 1883 Chatham NB Canada.  She is my mother.

 

John has a daughter Isabella Kerr b 1850 Grange Banffshire Scotland.  She is your great grandmother.  She married George Shearer and had 8 children.  Youngest is Duncan Hendrick Shearer b 1892 d 1929.  Your grandfather.

 

If you have an interest in John Kerr and Adam Kerr I should be pleased to let you have my stuff.

Kerr Godfrey



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Russell wrote:

Number 5 looks remarkably like Duncan Shearer so I might suggest that's him. Number 6 looks like Miriam Shearer and the fact that they are stood together may confirm that. 

Russell  


 

Hi Russell,

Thanks for that, I've not seen Duncan Shearer before so good that you have been able to advise on that, so perhaps your comments raise an alternative list of names:

geo3d.jpg

1 - Ernest Griffin
2 - Sarah Jane Griffin (nee Phillips, Ernest's Wife)
3 - Mabel Griffin
4 - Florence Griffin
5 - Duncan Shearer (Husband of Miriam)
6 - Miriam Shearer (nee Griffin)
7 - Arthur Griffin
8 - Charlotte Elsie Griffin (possibly still Charlotte Elsie Pittock at time of this photograph, later to marry Arthur)
9 - Ellen Griffin
10 - Ellis Griffin
11 - Amy Shearer? (Daughter of Miriam)
12 - Kathleen Shearer? (Daughter of Miriam)
13 - Mabel Shearer? (Daughter of Miriam)
14 - (Arthur) John Griffin (Son of Ernest)
15 - Dorothy Griffin (Daughter of Ernest)

This revised list would make some sense, as No.1 was originally proposed as George, and supposing the picture is circa 1921, George would be just 16 and No.1 does look older than 16, plus No.1 is holding what I think is the only young boy of the children and Ernest and Sarah Jane had Arthur John in 1921 so that fits also. Though what the revised list doesn't include is George, is he really just not included in the photograph - the newspaper cutting from the time of his death does include Photography as one of his interests, maybe he is on this side of the camera?

One other query, I've never seen a picture of Charlotte Elsie Griffin nee Pittock before, not sure if Helen is able to verify if this look like a young Charlotte?

Thanks
Shane



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Hi All,

Here is a little more on the current thinking around the children of Ernest and Sarah Jane:

ernestchildren.jpg

One interesting find that this has already brought to light is around Dorothy and her marriage to Ken Lansbury, below is an article I found online:

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/community/obituaries/obits/10317871.Kenneth_Lansbury__A_passion_for_cycling/?ref=arc

 

kenl.jpg

THE former proprietor of a well-known Oxford bicycle shop has died at the age of 92.

Ken Lansbury was the owner of Broadribb’s bike shop for more than 40 years, as well as a stalwart of Oxford’s cycle racing club.

He began working in a bicycle shop owned by his uncle, Ernest Broadribb, shortly after leaving school when he was 13 years old.

At the time the shop was in New Inn Hall Street next to the then Oxford Mail offices and he was an errand boy.

His love of cycling was formed during these early years in the shop and a year after leaving school he joined Oxford City Road Club. At the age of 17 he began racing for the club.

The first bike he owned was an Armstrong Moth with Lauterwasser handlebars, but when he began racing his uncle gave him a red BSA track bike.

His racing career lasted for 58 years and during that time he achieved a personal best of 25 miles in 1.5.55.

It was when his uncle died in 1943 that Mr Lansbury, then in his early 20s, took over the business.

He continued racing until he was 75 and still holds the club’s veterans record for doing 10 miles in 28.45.

Keith Williams, a fellow member of Oxford City Road Club, said: “Ken has done every job possible in the club and is the epitome of our sport, someone for whom club cycling has been a life time passion and in his case a very long lifetime at that.”

Mr Lansbury was born on March 29, 1920 and was one of the first pupils to enrol at Southfield Grammar School in Glanville Road.

During the Second World War he served in the Royal Air Force. He was training as a radio operator and air gunner when his war service was cut short because he caught pleurisy.

This allowed him to return to Oxford and take over his uncle’s bike shop.

During his time at the shop he was responsible for the introduction of many new bikes such as the Moulton small wheel bicycle and also provided trophies for Oxford City Road Club and Oxonian Cycle Club.

The company moved premises twice while he ran it, first to St Ebbes in 1963 and then to Market Street in 1975.

He was married for 53 years to Dorothy (nee Griffin) and the couple had a daughter, Maureen. He was widowed about 20 years ago.

Mr Lansbury retired in 1985 when he sold the company to its present owner, Ian Allington, who has since set up shops in Bicester, Leamington Spa and Newport, South Wales.

In retirement, he remained involved in cycling, becoming president of Oxford City Road Club.

He died on March 5 and is survived by daughter Maureen and his partner Mary James, who lived with him in Sutton Courtenay. He did not have any grandchildren.

His funeral took place at Oxford Crematorium on Friday, March 15.


So interesting.

Thanks,
Shane



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The line of Ernest and Sarah Jane has been a puzzling one but is starting to now be come clearer.

Here is the marriage of their eldest child and only son Arthur, who I have come to know always went by his middle name John:

Arthur John Griffin
Sylvia Jenny Webster
Jul-Aug-Sep 1956, Gosport

I have then also been able to locate the following entries in the 'Eastern Daily Press notices and personal messages' website:

JOHN GRIFFIN

Originally printed on August 1, 2009 in the Eastern Daily Press.

GRIFFIN JOHN, aged 87, passed away on July 29th, 2009, at Halvergate House, North Walsham, beloved husband of Jenny, wonderful father to Penny and Peter, cherished father-in-law of Louise and loving grandfather of Milly and Bel. Funeral service at Cromer Parish Church, at 11 a.m., on Friday, August 14th, followed by burial at St. James', Southrepps. Flowers or donations to Friends of the Earth to Cromer and District Independent Funeral Services, 32 West Street, Cromer, NR27 9DS.


JENNY GRIFFIN

Originally printed on September 18, 2013 in the Eastern Daily Press.

GRIFFIN JENNY on September 14th, peacefully at the home she loved aged 92 years. Wonderful mother to Penny and Peter, beloved mother-in-law to Louise and loving grandmother to Milly and Bel. Reunited with her adored husband, John. Funeral service at Cromer Parish Church on Thursday, September 26th at 1p.m, followed by burial at St. James Church, Southrepps. Flowers or donations if wished with the cheques payable to Friends of the Earth c/o Cromer and District Funeral Services, 32 West Street, Cromer

Thanks
Shane



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Hi Shane 

Another fascinating post!  I didn't know the Griffin family bible even existed.  There are some interesting facts recorded. 

I've never seen the family photograph before and it's the first time I've ever seen a picture of Ellis Griffin. Handsome chap - I now know where I get it from!  Number 5 looks remarkably like Duncan Shearer so I might suggest that's him. Number 6 looks like Miriam Shearer and the fact that they are stood together may confirm that. 

Keep up the excellent work, Shane,  and have a wonderful Christmas. 

Russell 

 

 

 



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Hi All,

I think it would be fair to say that this afternoon was pretty special. Why? Well, let me tell you.

This afternoon I was fortunate enough met up and spend some time with Brian and Caroline, children of the late Winnie Griffin, and they very kindly took the time to share with me some of their family treasures - I am very appreciative of this, and in addition Brian and Caroline have kindly agreed that I may share some items here for the wider family to enjoy.

Firstly, here is a newspaper cutting from the time of George Griffins passing in 1961:

geo1.jpg


Next, here is a lovely picture, and in it we see Amy Huckins, Miriam Shearer, Winnie Griffin and George Griffin:

geo5.jpg


Now, here is something quite special, here are some pictures of the family bible with hand written entries (probably Ellen's) dating from 1886 onwards:

geo2a.jpg

geo2b.jpg

geo2c.jpg

 

And now, something very nice indeed, a rather lovely group family photograph which includes Ellis and Ellen! (the first time I have seen them, and think it will be the first time for many others also)

geo3ed.jpg

The date of the photograph and identities of everyone are not yet 100%, so help is requested if anyone can add some information, current suggestions are as follows:

1 - George Griffin
2 - Miriam Shearer (nee Griffin)
3 - Mabel Griffin
4 - Florence Griffin
5 - Ernest Griffin
6 - Sarah Jane Griffin (nee Phillips, Ernest's Wife)
7 - Arthur Griffin
8 - Charlotte Elsie Griffin (possibly still Charlotte Elsie Pittock at time of this photograph, later to marry Arthur)
9 - Ellen Griffin
10 - Ellis Griffin

Now, the children are not yet clear, and somewhat depends on the date of the photograph, although using birth dates of the grandchilden of Ellen and Ellis perhaps this photograph is from around 1921 when 5 grandchildren had been born (5 are pictured):

11 - Amy Shearer? (Daughter of Miriam)
12 - Kathleen Shearer? (Daughter of Miriam)
13 - Mabel Shearer? (Daughter of Miriam)
14 - (Arthur) John Griffin (Son of Ernest)
15 - Dorothy Griffin (Daughter of Ernest)

geo3d.jpg

Some more work required here!

I'm sure all will agree that all of these are lovely to see, and similarly I'm sure all will appreciate them kindly being shared for the wider enjoyment across the family - once again, thank you Brian and Caroline.

Shane



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Hi Shane

 

Good to hear from you.  As I said in my email, Alice Rose Gamage nee Griffin is indeed Prudence Oliver's great grand-daughter. She's my mum. She was of course also cousin to William, Flo and Ethel Titchener.

Lots of information for me to go through but as usual am indebted to you for your research.  Keep up the good work.

 



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In the most recent post I had noted in tree diagram that Charles and Bertha had a son, William Charles Titchener, born 1920 and who married Winifred Prescott in 1946.

I've also now found the following entry in the online Oxford Mail announcements from September 2011:

Winifred Titchener

Published in the Oxford Mail on 8 September 11

Titchener Winifred (Win) On September 5th 2011 peacefully in hospital after a long illness aged 85 years. Dearly beloved wife of the late Bill, sorely missed by her daughter, Carol, loving nan to Mark, Donna and Suzanne, loving granny to her great grand children whom she adored. She will be sadly missed by all. Funeral service at 11.30am on Thursday 15th September at Oxford Crematorium

So the reference to grandchildren and great grandchildren implies that this line has several living descendants.



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We've already seen that WW1 had a big impact on this family line, Harold Griffin and Duncan Shearer most poignantly.

I've just discovered another WW1 connection and it's regarding a man called Charles Titchener who went on to marry Bertha Lillian Griffin (cousin to Miriam, Harold etc)

charlest1.jpg

Often I think of WW1 from the 'Western Front' perspective, but during WW1 as well as raising multiple battalions on the Western Front, the Ox and Bucks also raised two battalions in Italy, two in Macedonia and one in Mesopotamia - and it's Mesopotamia (modern-day Iraq, Syria and Kuwait) that this latest finding concerns.

I was fortunate enough to discover the military records of Charles Titchener and based on a number of dates and other details we're able to be very precise on where WW1 took Charles and it gives us an insight into his experiences.

Firstly though, the records tell us that he was from Stanford-in-the-Vale and that he signed up with the Ox and Bucks in 1908. They give a little insight into his physical characteristics also:

charlest3.jpg

 

The records also give us a detailed history of when and where Charles was posted, pre WW1 we can see he was based in India for almost 4 years.

charlest4.jpg


Then of course in 1914 we know WW1 started. Using extracts from war diaries regarding activities and movements within the various Ox and Bucks battalions we can, to the day, pick up where Charles left India for Mesopotamia on the 20th November 1914, and the below extract describes a little about the next 1 year and 146 days of Charles' war:

The 1st Ox and Bucks, as part of the 17th (Ahmednagar) Brigade, 6th (Poona) Division, left India for Mesopotamia in November 1914; there, the battalion took part in the campaign against the Ottoman forces that ruled the country.

The battalion took part in the march towards Kut-al-Amara with the intention of capturing it from the Ottomans. The battle for Kut began on 26 September and raged for a number of days until the Ottomans went into retreat and Kut was captured on 28 September. The battalion then took part in the Battle of Ctesiphon (22–24 November) during the pursuit of the Ottoman forces and in the effort to capture the capital Baghdad, which ended in the 6th Poona Division being defeated by the Ottomans. 635 officers and men of the battalion fought in the battle of Ctesiphon and 304 became casualties. The Division subsequently retreated to Kut, reaching it on 3 December, where it was besieged by the Ottomans, beginning on 7 December, with a garrison of 10,000 Britons and Indians. The Ottomans launched numerous attempts to take Kut, all of which were repulsed by the defenders, with both sides suffering heavy casualties. The British launched numerous attempts to relieve Kut, all of which failed with heavy losses. On 26 April 1916—supplies had dwindled significantly and many of the garrison's defenders were suffering from sickness—the garrison negotiated a cease-fire with the Ottomans and on 29 April the British-Indian force of 8,000 surrendered to the Ottomans, including 400 men of the 1st Ox and Bucks. Many of the Ox and Bucks taken at Kut, like the rest of the prisoners, suffered mistreatment by the Ottomans; only 71 of all ranks of the 1st Ox and Bucks who had been taken prisoner returned home to the UK. It is estimated that just under 2,000 Britons and up to 3,000 Indians perished in captivity.

The British-Indian surrender on the 29th April ties in with Charles' history where we see him recorded as a Prisoner from 30th April and the following describes a little of Charles' time as a POW, which he was for 2 years and 237 days

Allied prisoners incarcerated in the Ottoman Empire during World War I experienced a wide range of treatment. Post-war investigations revealed abysmal conditions which Entente soldiers faced due to neglect and abuse by their Turkish captors. After the British Army surrendered at Kut-al-Amara in April 1916, the Turks marched British and Indian prisoners across the Syrian Desert without food, water, and access to shelter. Thousands of POW's died as a result of inadequate medical care. The British government attempted to ransom their troops, but Ottoman authorities saw greater propaganda value in having British prisoners imprisoned in their empire.

Using another part of the military records we can see that he was a POW in Turkey at the Afion Karahissar camp, ultimately being released and repatriated in December 1918.

charlest2.jpg

Charles married Bertha at Wolvercote in 1919 and I believe they had 3 children, though I know nothing more of his life or his descendants post WW1 - those war experiences surely can not have been easy to have lived with, some truly horrific experiences, though he must have been a very strong man and one of the few fortunate ones who managed to return.

Shane



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Hello Cath

I'm pleased to hear you're moving to Stonesfield.  It's a great village and I'm sure you'll be very happy here.

Like Helen,  George was my great uncle and Ellis my great grandfather.  George did indeed build the house next to Helen's old house, Green Furlong, but Ellison is his his second house.  It is to the right of a house built by Ernest Griffin,  his brother. As you can see, Ellis spawned a house building dynasty which, no doubt, would have included the eldest brother, Harold, had he not been killed in WW1.

Ellis lived in Protestant House where the brothers (and sisters) grew up. How Ellis came to be a builder in the first place is an interesting tale involving his mother, Prudence,  who is the Oliver connection to the Griffin family. 

Best wishes 

Russell 



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Hi Cath,

Great to hear about the house you're buying - George was my great uncle and Ellis my great grandfather! George's brother Arthur, my grandfather, built the house next door down the hill, formerly known as Colinwood. My dad grew up in that house, and so did I!

Hope it's a really happy home for you, next door was a great place to grow up for me!

This is a photo of our house from the garden in the 1960s.

Helen Graham (formerly Griffin).

Colinwood.jpg



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Hello Cath

What a great story.  Not often you can move into a new home and have access to all it's history - what a bonus.  If you were married in Woodstock does that mean that you are local?  If so, you may find that you also have an Oliver ancestor somewhere in your family history - now that would be spooky.

All good wishes for health and happiness in your new home.

Linda



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Hi all

I found this thread as I was looking into the history of a house we are in the process of buying in Stonesfield - Ellison.

 

We visiting this afternoon and met with the grandson of the previous occupier - the late Winnie Griffin.  He told us that Winnie lived there with her 2nd husband George Griffin, who had build the house and named it Ellison as he was Ellis' son.  

 

The house is just round the corner from the Church and Prospect House.

 

I love knowing the history of the house!  To add a bit of bizarre info, my husband and I married at Woodstock, celebrating afterwards at The Feather's Hotel, where Winnie was still working at the time. 

 

 



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Hi Helen,

Sorry for the delayed response, some super sleuthing there, interesting to see the IGI records coming in very useful, and your tenacity has certainly focused in on the crux of the various possibilities - for sure I think the notes about Worcestershire from Miriam will certainly relate to some event or occurrence that was passed down through the generations - and here is the fun (and sometimes the frustration) of genealogy trying to figure our exactly what and when and who it relates to

Much of this thread has included references to the memories of Miriam and I'm pleased to be able to add a small picture of Miriam into the thread, the only one I have seen to date:

miriam.jpg

It is taken from the ever brilliant Stonesfield Millennium book, the book actually dates it as pre WW1, but it looks to me as of Miriam is wearing a wedding ring so I would suggest it ma actually be after 1915 when she married.

Very nice to put a face to Miriam, and thanks to Russell for confirming this is indeed Mariam.

Thanks!
Shane



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Samuel Griffin:

A little update - I have found a third Samuel Griffin, and he definitely married Sarah Davis in Steeple Aston and they had a family in Hilperton: he was born18th Sep1763, Steeple Ashton, Wilts to Job and Betty Griffen. They go back in Steeple Aston to the 16th century! This must be the guy in Hilperton, as his son’s widow is there in 1843 with her name spelt Griffen, and in their extensive online family tree they have Sarah Davis as his wife.

So, Sarah Tidmarsh it is, for definite - and unless anyone can find a marriage or death certificate for Samuel with a birth date or place, or anyone has any other amazing ideas, I suppose the possibility that he was the one to walk from Worcestershire will have to remain just that - a possibility that's fairly unlikely too. Ah well!

 



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Hi Shane,

The story of little Annie is very sad - as you say, you never know what you'll find when you start looking into family history. Lovely photo of Alice and Ronald - I suppose she is my dad's second cousin and perhaps he remembers her - perhaps he has also heard the story of Annie. I am going to have to think carefully about what to show him and what to talk about when I visit next month, as it can all be quite overwhelming! However, he really enjoyed reading Miriam's memoirs, and is really looking forward to reading the whole thing which Russell has kindly offered to copy for us.

MYSTERY CONTINUED . . . 

Regarding the mystery of Samuel and Sarah Griffin - here is my synopsis, and I may have to be happy to leave it as a mystery!

It turns out that there were 2 Samuel Griffins christened days apart in April 1757!

1: April 10th 1757 Samuel born to Thomas and Anne of Stonesfield, as shown by Shane's record

2: April 13th 1757 Samuel born to to Richard and Grace in Kidderminster - from Family Search records Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04395-6 , System Origin: England-EASy , GS Film number: 435261 ,Reference ID: item 2

And 2 Samuel Griffins who married Sarahs at about the same time and not that far from each other – what are the odds of that!

1. Samuel and Sarah Tidmarsh in Oxford, in 1787, as shown by Shane's record

(Sarah Tidmarsh christened Chipping Norton 27th May 1766 -  from Family Search records Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C02016-2 , System Origin: England-ODM , GS Film number: 95229)

2. Samuel Griffin married Sarah Griffin [Davis] on Oct. 10, 1784 in Steeple Ashton, Wiltshire  (Terry Griffin has found this in parish and government records, I can't find them myself)

(Sarah Davis christened in Chipping Norton 14th May  1769 - from Family Search records Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C02016-2 , System Origin: England-ODM , GS Film number: 95229)

And they had two families -

1. one in Stonesfield which is likely to be Samuel and Sarah Tidmarsh:

children: 1789 James, 1793 Samuel

2. and one in Hilperton Wiltshire (4 miles from Steeple Aston) which is likely to be Samuel and Sarah Davis:

children:  1789 Catherine, 1793 Samuel, 1801 William, 1808 Elizabeth

But which Samuel was the one in Stonesfield? It is possible that it was the Worcestershire one, according to family stories, but perhaps we'll never know!

Apologies for going on about this - but I find it fascinating! Also, apologies if I have got any of my facts wrong or missed something glaringly obvious!.

 

All the best,

Helen.



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Hi Shane.

What a very sad tale.  Actually I discovered an almost identical happening in John`s Family Tree.  Also my own Mother was very badly scalded on  the head caused by an accident involving a pan of hot water.  I suppose modern kitchens  with the numerous work surfaces are a much safer place to be these days. 

Hope you are well.

Regards,

Irene



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Hi All,

I think it's probably important to note that anyone starting or thinking about starting to look into their family history should remember that aswell as finding stories that will make them smile or make them proud, there is also the opportunity if discovering sadder stories.

I have taken a quick look into the line down from William Griffin, brother of Ellis, and in a very short period of research the above is well demonstrated.

We can find William on the 1911 census, married and with 3 children, Arthur, George and Bertha.

william1911.jpg

Tracking back we find William married Emily Bishop in 1889, and in the little village that I grew up and lived in for 20+ years, Northleigh, so this lovely old church is where they will have married:

northleighchurch.jpg

The census also shows that their son Arthur was baptised in Northleigh, Emily's home parish, and then the other children were born in Stonesfield.

arthur1890_.jpg

The census also shows that aswell and the 3 living children, William and Emily had had 3 other children who were not living at the time of the 1911 census.

A further look back at the Northleigh parish records helps identify one of these three children; Annie Elizabeth who was born in 1892:

annie1892.jpg


Obviously knowing that Annie had died between 1892 and 1911 I searched the death indexes and found her death registered in 1895.

By exploring historical resources outside of basic census, birth, marriage and death framework we are also able to discover just what happened to young Annie, as reported in the Jackson's Oxford Journal, Saturday September 28, 1895:

annie1895.jpg

A very very sad accident indeed.

I also followed the descendants of William down the line of his first son William and through his marriage and onto his children, and I believe the outline tree looks like this:

arthur1890tree_.jpg

Specifically regarding Alice R Griffin I found the following marriage record:

Name: Alice R Griffin
Spouse Surname: Gamage
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1951
Registration district: Ploughley
Inferred County: Oxfordshire

In the online Oxford Mail announcements I found the following on the 22 December 2011

Ron and Rose GAMAGE Congratulations to you both on your Diamond Wedding. With love from all your family xxx

randrgamage600.jpg

Marriage registered Oct - Dec 1951, Diamond Wedding Anniversary Announcement December 2011 - So the lady in the picture, who I suggest must go by her middle name Rose rather than Alice, is actually the great-granddaughter of Prudence, surely?

Lovely photograph.

Thanks,
Shane



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It's interesting to see the house "Knott Oaks" has a family connection.  It's the house opposite the house I grew up in . I remember the Brooks family living there at the time.

Message for Helen , I've sent you a separate message as it's not relevant to the main discussion .



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The talk of Ernest Frederick Oliver earlier reminded me of another fabulous old picture in the Stonesfield Millennium book.

Ernest plus 3 other Oliver men are in a picture of the Stonesfield Choir circa 1909 - if you fancy a look click on the 'Picture Gallery' menu option above and I have added it there, hover over the picture for names.

Thanks,
Shane



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Hi All,

When looking into the descendants of Edward Griffin, eldest son of Prudence and big brother of Ellis, its interesting to find that Bernard Barrett has a double Oliver link in his ancestors.

From the tree diagram below we can see that his mother was an Oliver, Edith Constance. Now Edith's Father was Ernest Frederick Oliver who was incidentally the Grandson of Waterloo Joseph, and Ernest actually married Edith Ethel Griffin, daughter of Edward, Granddaughter of Prudence.

bernard2links.jpg

So Bernard (and his sister Rachel of course) who along with good friend Helen provided such fantastic musical entertainment at last years Oliver day certainly have some good Oliver genes within them!

Edward married twice, and it was his probate information that highlighted this. I knew he had married Fanny Willets and together they had Ethel and Edith (and one additional child which had died), but the probate named 'Isabella' as his widow.

1911

edward1911.jpg

1951

edwardprobate.jpg

Looking into the records I could see the death registration for Fanny in September 1929, then quite quickly it seems, in December 1929 Edward marries again to Isabella Cowie.

The probate record also shows Edward lived at Knott Oakes which is along the Woodstock Road in Stonesfield, so another property with a connection - it was for sale recently which allows us a little peek (photo's are not my own, these are taken from the Zoopla website)

knottsaokes1.jpg

knottsaokes2.jpg

knottsaokes3.jpg

knottsaokes4.jpg

knottsaokes5.jpg

knottsaokes6.jpg

Lovely views from the rear garden out across field to Notaoks Wood - perhaps some of those internal features like the fireplace may even be original from the when Edward lived there?

By 1958 a Walter T S Brooks was living there so perhaps Isabella has sold it and moved elsewhere.

Thanks!
Shane



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Nice to hear from you Russell - I haven't seen you for probably more than 40 years!! And I never realised we were all second cousins when we were young either! 

Shane my Dad is absolutely delighted with the excerpts of Miriam's Memoirs I printed and sent to him - and he would very much like a copy of the entire 65 page document. Did you photograph it all? If not what do you think would be the best way to try and get a full copy? Do you have a copy Russell, as it's your Gran's? 

Dad also really liked the story about you showing Albert the football photo, Shane, and he told me that Albert was one of just a couple of men in the Stonesfield team who were such good players that they could have had a professional career (but it wasn't very lucrative at the time, so not very appealing as a career choice I suppose!).

You're right, Russell, Terry Griffin who I found through myheritage smart matches had no idea about our Worcestershire mystery, and I only found his Worcestershire records because I was browsing around his site wondering if another branch of the family might know something more. I have no idea what to do next, but it seems a little more than a coincidence - tantalising - I wonder!! 

All the best,

Helen.

 



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Hi Shane

Expert sleuthing!  It’s not been possible to reconcile gran’s comment to the documentary evidence which made me think that it might have been a bit of family history recounted to her by her grandfather rather than something that actually happened to him.  You have made a connection between the Austins and Worcestershire but not the Griffins – or, at least, until you delve more deeply!

Interestingly, the enumerator records William Austin as born in Blockley in the 1871 census but Thomas Austin in the 1881 census.  Strange but probably not significant.

I presume Helen’s contact, Terry Griffin, came up with a Stonesfield/Worcestershire connection without any prompting from Miriam’s book.  That’s quite a coincidence at the very least and worth investigating further.  (It’s good to see your name, Helen, and I hope you are well).

With best wishes

 

Russell



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Hi Shane - this is very puzzling! Great to see your information, many thanks. I see you've had a look at the tree I mentioned already.

Terry Griffin got back to me and has sent me a pdf of all his work from William Griffin in Worcester in the mid seventeenth century with sources. I will send it to you and you can have a good peruse! He has quite a lot of Stonesfield descendants there, including me (!) and a few mistakes, but not bad going really!His entire database is now 17,500 (!!!) so he is pretty keen - but there will be room for lots of mistakes too.

This is where the mystery lies: You have the marriage in Oxford, in 1787 of the parents of Samuel (born 1793 in Stonesfield) as Sarah (Tidmarsh) with Samuel Griffin (b 1757) . 

Terry has a Samuel Griffin born in 1757 in Kidderminster, Worcestershire, who died in Stonesfield 1836. He married Sarah Griffin [Davis] on Oct. 10, 1784 in Steeple Ashton, Wiltshire, England. Sarah was born in 1762 in Steeple Aston and died in 1840 in Stonesfield, Oxfordshire. 

HHMM!!!! I am now way out of my depth trying to untangle or verify all this!!

Happy days!

Helen.

 



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More, re:
A Worcestershire mystery!

Miriam's document includes the following excerpt:

It is the spring of 1974, and at the age of 82, I have dug up my roots and transferred them to a completely new part of the village (the new estate) and left the old place, where for about 150 years our Griffin family have lived, namely in the vicinity of the Church and the 'Cross'.

To begin with, my Grandfather, (who was the son of a farmer in Worcestershire) heard of a farmer at Stonesfield who wanted a good all round handy young man to work on his farm. Their (my Grandfather's) farm had collapsed, so he walked all the way, found the farm, (a Mr Austin by name) and worked for him for many years, both before and after marriage.

Well, I've not looked too deeply yet, but I wonder if the below may be some sort of lead on understanding the 'Worcestershire' references.

Thinking a little more laterally, I have run a search across the entire 1841 - 1911 census collection for anyone (no name specified) born in Worcestershire and living in Stonesfield - only 22 records appear, but they include the following:

1871, Stonesfield

austin1871.jpg

1881 - Stonesfield

austin1881.jpg

We can see a Philip Austin and family primarily born and living in Stonesfield, but if you look closely you will see child(ren) are listed a being born in Blockley, Worcestershire, around 1865 time, so the Austin family were certainly living in Worcestershire for a period. Interestingly also, Philip's wife Emma was born a Griffin, in Stonesfield 1837.

Philip was a carpenter, but his sons were farm boys, and Mariam does mention Mr Austins farm, is somehow this is all related to that?? ... don't really know yet, something to ponder, but thought I would just share.

Of side interest, the Thomas Austin shown above on the 1881 census aged 14 born Blockley, Worcs, actually went on to be a nephew of Prudence, as he married Liliy Selina Oliver, daughter of Albert, Albert the brother of Prudence - Thomas is included in the 'Fantastic Family Photograph' item under 'Facts and Happenings'.

OK, Thanks
Shane



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Hi Helen,

Re:
A Worcestershire mystery!

I've just taken another glance back through the Parish Records for the direct line back from Arthur.

So, step by step ..

1. Here is Arthur's baptism in 1826 in Combe, son of Samuel and Mary

arthur1826.jpg

2. Here is the marriage of Samuel and Mary Harris in 1823, again in Combe, details Samuel from Stonesfield, Mary from Combe (otp = of this Parish)

samual1823.jpg

3. Here we have the baptism of Samuel in 1793, in Stonesfield, son of Samuel and Sarah

samual1793.jpg

 

4. The next one was a little more work as it was not in Stonefield. The marriage of Samuel and Sarah Tidmarsh was in Oxford, in 1787.

samual1787.jpg

 

5. Then we have the baptism of Samuel in Stonesfield in 1757, son of Thomas and Ann.

samual1757.jpg

 

6. Then we have he marriage of Thomas and Ann in Stonesfield, stating both of Stonesfield

thomas1741.jpg

 

7. Then we have the baptism of Thomas in 1715, in Stonesfield, son of Peter and Mary

thomas1715.jpg

 

8. Then the marriage of Peter and Mary Woolridge in 1713, Peter of Eynsham and Mary of Stonesfield, but married in Shipton-under-Wychwood

Peter1713_1.jpg

peter1713_2.jpg

So to cut a long story short, I've not seen any Worcestershire facts in there so still puzzled by the Worcestershire references in Mariams notes - though - the birthplace of Arthur's Gramdmother Sarah Tidmarsh is not clear, I have not found that baptism record, perhaps she was from Worcestershire???

Her death is probably this Sarah Griffin in 1839 in Stonesfield, aged 74, which would make her birth around 1765.

sarah1839.jpg

The Samuel in my notes above born 1757 does have a death record in Stonesfield in 1836, aged 80.

samual1836.jpg

Some of the links and relation on that online tree do seem to conflict with the above so would certainly be good of you get a response with some sources etc.

Ok, sorry no mysteries unravelled ... yet!

Shane

 



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Hi Shane,

This is a lovely story and I will pass it on to my dad - he has the Stonesfield book so he can look up the photo - it will mean a lot.

Helen.



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A Worcestershire mystery!

I wonder if I have found a clue about the story Miriam told in her memoirs of her grandfather coming from Worcestershire. It turns out that her grandfather Arthur Griffin (Prudence Oliver's husband) is on the census as born in Stonesfield and he is there at every census. Also his father and mother Samuel and Mary (Harris) were in Stonesfield all along.

However, looking a bit further back to Arthur's grandfather, we may possibly find the answer.

There is a family tree on myheritage called Griffin Web Site \ Terrys Family - The Griffin Line and he has listed the grandparents for Arthur Griffin as coming  from Kidderminster, Worcestershire! I have sent him a message asking how he found this out, but I don't know if he will reply.

It could be that Miriam's gt gt grandfather Samuel b 1757 was the one who walked from Worcestershire to Stonesfield after a family farm failed.

This is what is on the family tree. As I said, I don't know if/how it's verified:

Samuel Griffin b 1757 Kidderminster d 1836 (parents Richard Griffin b. 1717 and Grace Perrins) 

Samuel married: Sarah Davies b 1762 d 1840

Their son: Samuel Griffin, born in Stonesfield in 1793 - agricultural labourer - married Mary Harris 1801 - 1845 died in Stonesfield 1862 (a perfect match)

Their son: James Griffin 1835 - 1873 - (the youngest sibling of Arthur) it seems he was born in Hardley Oxfordshire, so that's a bit odd.

I don't really know how to take this any further - so, over to you Shane, if you have the inclination!

Cheers,

Helen.



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Hi All,

The recent talk of Kathleen Hanks has reminded me of a picture that is in the Stonesfield Millennium book. Its a picture of he 1935/36 Stonesfield Football Team and includes Kathleen's husband Albert Hanks:

alberthanks.jpg

Albert passed away in the Cedar Court Care Home in Witney in 2013, the same as my own Gran, they were there at the same time for a while. I remember visiting my Gran with my Great Aunt and her husband, I happened to have the Stonesfield book with me as I wanted to show my Gran. Well Albert was pointed out to me because of the Stonesfield connection and I remembered that the picture of him was in the book, so we showed him. If I remember correctly his speech and communication was not so good at this time but when he saw the picture of himself and his team mates his eyes absolutely lit up and he really seemed to love seeing the old picture, it was really nice.

Thanks,
Shane 



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I think this little tree diagram represents our latest position in discovering this line:

ellistree.jpg


Prudence Oliver b.1835 d.1898
Arthur Griffin b.1826 d.1891

 Ellis Griffin b.1864 d.1940
 Ellen Collier b.1867 d.1950

  Harold Griffin b.1888 d.1917 Did Not Marry

  Ernest Griffin b.1889 d.1962 m.1916
  Sarah Jane Phillips b.1890 d.1973

   Dorothy M Griffin b.1921 Living?
   Arthur J Griffin b.1920 Living?
   Margaret Griffin b.1923 Living?
   Marion I Griffin b.1926 Living?

  Miriam Griffin b.1891 d.1980 m.1915
  Duncan Shearer b.1890 d.1929

   Amy Helen Shearer b.1916 d.1982 m.1938 Leslie F Huckins
   Kathleen Florence Mabel Shearer b.1920 d.2009 m.1945 Albert Hanks
   Mabel Mildred Shearer b.1921 d.1987 m.1946 John R M Hewitt
   Harold Griffin Shearer b.1922 d.1996 m.1946 Grietje Woldhuis
   Maisie Victoria Shearer b.1926 Living? m. 1947 Ronald A Wastie

  Florence Griffin b.1894 d.1976 m.1936
  George Prior b.1880 d.1972

  Mabel Griffin b.1898 d.1994 Did Not Marry

  Arthur Griffin b.1903 d.1951 m.1925
  Charlotte Elsie L Pittock b.1903 d.1991

   Harold Griffin b.1928 Living
   Lorna R Griffin b.1930 d.1993
   Colin Griffin b.1936 d.1944

  George Griffin b.1905 b.1961
  Phyllis M Porter b.1910 b.1941 m.1931

   Philip G Griffin b.1933 Living
   Gilliam M Griffin b.1936 Living

  Winifred Dora Walker b.1919 d.2015 m.1945
 
   Caroline W E Griffin b.1947 Living

 Harry Alfred Goves b.1912 b.1943 M.1938

   Michael J Goves b.1938 Living
   Bryan H Goves b.1942 Living



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Hi Shane,

Wow - you've been busy! Fascinating stuff - I'm so glad the few clues I passed on have helped you sort out the Ernest Edward branch of the family. I'll pass this on to Dad, he'll be fascinated I'm sure! Also, many thanks for finding out about Kathy Hanks for me, much appreciated. Out of interest, where did you find this record?

I'm now thoroughly hooked on genealogy!!

Yours,

Helen.



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Hi All,

It's a slight aside from the pure family history, but I thought it worth mentioning ..

eeg_will.jpg

.. the probate documentation of Ernest Edward Griffin includes the address 14 Bradmore Road. This is North Central Oxford, Summertown, just off the Banbury Road where the houses are large, its a privileged area.

Well, I did a search on that address to discover that it is the registered business address of the company 'Richard Hawkins Ltd. Some of you may be familiar with Richard Hawkins and his work. he's pretty high profile, some might say controversial!

Looking a little further I found an online interview that included 'Richard Dawkins and his wife Lalla Ward, an actress turned illustrator, live in a large, pale-brick house in Summertown, north Oxford'

So, I feel pretty sure that the house that Ernest lived in indeed now the home of THE Richard Hawkins, so there's a little something.

Shane



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Hi All,

Well, I think that once again with a pooling of knowledge and distant recollections we might just have managed to make a breakthrough on what was a bit of grey area in our understanding of this branch - namely Ernest Edward Griffin.

We know that he emigrated to Winnipeg with his brother Harold and they undertook that wonderful plasterwork on the cinema's and he was still in Winnipeg when his sister Miriam emigrated 1913, and then we know from Miriams notes that he died in the UK in 1961.

Little was known however around descendants; did he marry? here/Canada?, were there children of the marriage(s)?

Helen kindly provided a few clues via her father 'his wife was referred to by Dad as Aunty Lala - she was Welsh and had a sister called Susie - children were John, Dorothy and Margaret and they moved to Oxford'

So, the first record I found was Ernest's probate:

eeg_will.jpg

Not entirely conclusive in terms on name, perhaps Lala was a nickname?, perhaps Sarah Jane was a second wife?

I then took a lead from the Welsh comment, if there marriage was in the UK rather than Canada, I wondered if it may have been in Wales rather than England, often marriage were in the brides district:

I found the following:

Name:
Sarah J Phillips

Spouse Surname:
Ernest E Griffin

Date of Registration:
Jan-Feb-Mar 1916

Registration district:
Cardiff

Inferred County:
Glamorgan

This matches with the name on the probate. So they were married in Cardiff. This maybe means that Ernest came back to the UK around the same time as Harold came back for WW1 duties.

I was interested to know if Sarah was indeed Welsh, I looked for her death in order to find a birth year so I could trace the birth location and perhaps early census records from when she was a child:

Name:
Sarah Jane Griffin

Birth Date:
8 Mar 1895

Date of Registration:
Sep 1973

Age at Death:
78

Registration district:
Oxford

Inferred County:
Oxfordshire

So taking 1895 I found:

Name:
Sarah Jane Phillips

Registration Year:
1895

Registration Quarter:
Jan-Feb-Mar

Registration district:
Cardiff

Inferred County:
Glamorgan

Then, I was able to locate Sarah Jane on the 1911 census

sjp_1911.jpg

Sure enough, per Helens Dad's notes, there was a sister Susannah too! So Sarah and her family were from Pentyrch, a small village located on the western outskirts of Cardiff.

So, then to the children, the following births appear in the Woodstock Oxfordshire district:

Dorothy M Griffin
Jan-Feb-Mar 1921 Woodstock Oxfordshire 
 
Margaret Griffin
Jan-Feb-Mar 1923 Woodstock Oxfordshire 

Marion I Griffin
Jul-Aug-Sep 1926 Woodstock Oxfordshire

Dorothy and Margaret certainly match up with the leads.

There is then also the following:

Name:
Arthur J Griffin

Mother's Maiden Surname:
Phillips

Date of Registration:
Oct-Nov-Dec 1921

Registration district:
Woodstock

I wonder if the son known as John was actually Arthur John, named after his Grandfather of course, this would be entirely plausible.

I will do a little more digging here but certainly all the above looks like great progress to me - all thanks to some very useful clues!

Shane



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Hi Helen,

Re: your question:

On another topic, does anyone know anything about Kathy Hanks? Is she still alive? I know Albert died a few years ago, but I can't find out any news of Kathy

I just discovered this record:

Name:
MS Kathleen Florence Mabel Hanks

Gender:
Female

Age:
89

Birth Date:
1920

Death Date:
4 Jun 2009

and here is an entry from the Oxford Mail, 6 May 13:

Albert Arthur Hanks

HANKS Albert Arthur Formerly of Stonesfield died peacefully in the Cedar Court Care Home, Witney on 1st May 2013 aged 96. A dear Father to Stephen, Norma, Daphne, Sheila and Robin. He will be very greatly missed by all of the family. Funeral at Stonesfield Methodist Chapel Tuesday 14th May at 10 30.

Thanks,
Shane



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Hi Helen,

Great spot there in the Stonesfield Slate!

Feb 2015

win_slate2.jpg

March 2015

win_slate1.jpg

What a complex but fascinating branch, so it would seem there are in fact 5 children from the 3 marriages, as illustrated below:

win_tree.jpg

Thanks for posting and sharing your findings Helen!

Shane

Phyllis M Porter b.1910 d.1941
George Griffin b.1905 d.1961
Winifred Dora Walker b.1919 d.2015
Harry Alfred Goves b.1912 d.1943
Philip G Griffin b.1933
Gillian M Griffin b.1936
Caroline W E Griffin b.1947
Michael J Goves b.1938
Bryan H Goves b.1942



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Hi there,

I have just caught up with all this fascinating thread on my branch of the family - Arthur Griffin of Colinwood was my grandfather and I grew up in that house. I thought I should post this about George Griffin re his children as I know Barb and Shane were trying to figure it out! I found the following in the Stonesfield Slate actually, as I wasn't at all clear myself!

"Winifred was a widow with two sons when she arrived (in Stonesfield), and married George Griffin, a widower with two children. Winnie and George had a daughter, Caroline."

That explained what I already knew about him, which was that he married someone called Cissie and they had two children called Philip and Jillian - I don't have their dates of birth though. Hope this helps! 

On another topic, does anyone know anything about Kathy Hanks? Is she still alive? I know Albert died a few years ago, but I can't find out any news of Kathy. 

All the best,

Helen Graham (nee Griffin - living in Edinburgh)



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Hi all.

I have been trying to trace the whereabouts of Michael Goves of Stonesfield for many years.  He was brother John`s close friend at Chippy School.  Brother John would like to make contact with him

Can anyone help me.

 

Irene



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Barb Silvester wrote:

Harold married a Dutch girl after the war.  She was called Margaret (or Marga) but her Dutch name may have been something like Gretchen (or Gretcha). 


You were good with your recollection again Barb!

I found this picture on the internet at this address http://www.eindhoveninbeeld.com/foto.php?foto=7415

basketball.jpg

The description for the picture is as follows:
Mijn moeder is het meisje op de bovenste rij aan de rechter kant. Haar naam is Grietje Woldhuis en in 1942 was zij 16 jaar oud en werkte bij Philips. Mijn vader (een Engels soldaat) was in 1945 in de oorlog in Eindhoven. Mijn moeder en vader zijn getrouwd in 1946 en wonen in Engeland. Grietje Shearer-Woldhuis is nu 81 jaar oud, zij wonen in een dorp bij Oxford, Engeland. Vakanties brengen we altijd door in Eindhoven.

The translation of the description is roughly:
'My mother is the girl on the top row on the right side. Her name is Jill Woldhuis and in 1942 she was 16 years old and worked at Philips. My father ( an English soldier ) was in 1945 in the war in Eindhoven. My mother and father were married in 1946 and live in England . Jill Shearer - Woldhuis is now 81 years old , living in a village near Oxford , England'

I believe Grietje still lives in Stonesfield now, but not confirmed.

I'm wondering if Harold Griffin Shearer (Grietje's husband) maybe married twice, in the records I find a death for Harold Grffin Shearer in Shrewsbury in 1996, then also the death of a Mary Elizabeth Shearer in Shrewsbury in 2001 - or these may be completely unrelated people.

Thanks,
Shane

 



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Information on that branch of the family has come together very nicely.  I'm glad I was able to help, Shane.  

Barb



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Hi Barb, All,

Thanks for those little clues there, really really helpful.

It seems that George Griffin was Win's second husband as I have been able to find a marriage in 1938 of a Harry Alfred Goves to Winifred Dora Walker, in Cirencester, Gloucestershire.

wdg11.jpg

I'm not yet sure of the Cirencester link, as I do know Harry A Goves was born in Witney, perhaps this is where Win is originally from or they were there for work - I will investigate that.

They were both living a Cranhams Lodge in Cirencester when they were married, which still exists now and is a B&B, http://www.cirencesterbandb.co.uk/

cranhamslodge.jpg

Following the marriage, and with the help if your info Barb, I was able to find the following births:

Michael J Goves - Oct-Nov-Dec 1939
Bryan H Goves - Oct-Nov-Dec 1942

What we find next appears to be quite sad; Harry's death in June 1943, aged 31, just 6 months after the birth of Bryan.

Name: Harry A Goves
Birth Date: abt 1912
Date of Registration: Jun 1943
Age at Death: 31
Registration district: Oxford
Inferred County: Oxfordshire

I was wondering if his death may have been WW2 related, but I am yet to find any evidence of that.

Here is the 1911 census showing Harry, yet to be named it would appear, at just 1 month old:

harrygoves1911.jpg

The census shows him and his family living at 36 West End, in Witney - this house:

36westend.jpg

Then next in 1945 we find the marriage of Win to George Griffin:

Winifred D Goves
George Griffin
Oct-Nov-Dec 1945
Chipping Norton District

Then, with the mother surname of Walker (was expecting Goves) we find the birth of Caroline in 1947:

Name: Caroline W E Griffin
Mother's Maiden Surname: Walker
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1947

Middle initials W E for Winifred Ellen perhaps after mother and Grandmother (George's mother). No marriage or current location identified for Caroline.

So, a few more bits of the jigsaw there.

Thanks,
Shane



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Hi Shane:

I didn't realise that George Griffin was Miriam's brother.  I think his wife was Winnie Goves before their marriage because there were 2 older boys in the family when I got to know them.  I think they were Brian and Michael Goves.  Caroline was born in the late 1940s.  Maybe Caroline was her middle name!!  There were no other children as far as I can remember.  I don't know if Caroline married or where she is now, but I don't think she is still living in Stonesfield.

I don't know anything about Ernest and Sarah.  Sorry I can't help with that.

Barb



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Hi Barb,

There is very little in Miriam's document about Arthur and George other than confirming ages at death and reasons for death, the fact that those various houses had been built by the brothers was knowledge gathered from other means even.

I have been looking into figuring out the marriages of all the brothers and sisters and identifying children. Here is how far I have got, but still some gaps:

ellischildren.jpg

Harold we know did not marry and died in WW1.

Ernest moved away to Oxford in the 1940's so I'm not sure if you would have seen or known much about him and his family, as yet I can't find a marriage and have only picked up the name of a wife as being Sarah Jane Griffin from his probate documents. I believe they had children aswell, possibly a son called John, two daughters also (only possible leads there though).

Miriam we have got into more detail above.

Florence married George Prior and I don't believe they had any children, I believe they lived at Protestant House after Ellis and Ellen had passed away (maybe with Mabel aswell?).

Mabel did not marry as far as I know.

Arthur married Charlotte Elsie Louisa Pittock and had three children, one being Colin who died tragically young, as far as I know their eldest son Harold is still alive (Helen's Dad). After Arthur died young himself, Charlotte (or Aunty Elsie as I think she was more commonly known) remarried Hedley Barrett, who himself had lost his first wife (Mabel Hunt, Daughter of Fanny Hunt nee Oliver). Both Aunty Elsie and Heldey are buried in Stonesfield with their first spouses.

George married Winifred Dora Goves/Gover/Groves who we know passed away just this year aged 96. I think she was a good few years younger than George when they married. You had mentioned a daughter Barb, Caroline, the birth of whom I can't trace at the moment despite several and varied searches. Were there any other children do you recall?, did Caroline marry do you know?

Any updates or advances on any of this gratefully received .....

eggrave11.jpg

eggrave14.jpg

eggrave12.jpg

Thanks,
Shane



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Hi Shane:

Any information on Miriam's younger brothers, Arthur and George?

Barb



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Hi Shane:

Ahhhh!  Now you mention it, I think I did know that Rachel was her middle name.  Yes, Celia Rachel sounds familiar, but I think she was always called Rachel by family and friends.  It's a good job you're so tenacious, Shane, and never give up until you get the right information.

I hope you get more sunny weather like you had on Friday.  With that clear blue sky it must have been a perfect day.

Barb

 



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Hi Barb,

Thanks for confirming the grandchildren of Miriam and adding in the extra details.

Rachel Huckins has been giving me the run around, I couldn't find a birth or marriage at all, then with a bit of lateral thinking and widening of the search criteria I discovered that Rachel is in fact a middle name (though presumably always used as a first name) and her birth registration is Celia R Huckin (the records missed the 's' and also had mothers surname of Shoarer which didn't help!).

I guess you never knew that and always knew her as Rachel?

With that cracked I could see a marriage to Michael J Walton in 1969 and two children Claire Louise Walton (1972) and Stuart Michael Walton (1973).

huckins.jpg

Ok, thanks again, thanks for now,
Shane



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Well Stonesfield was bathed in glorious warm sunshine yesterday as you can see below. I have added a photograph or two below of Miriam's gravestone, the lady whom we must thank for having written down her memories more than 50 years ago and therein allowing us to enjoy the stories in great detail now.

Thanks,
Shane 

mshearergrave10.jpg

mshearergrave11.jpg

mshearergrave12.jpg

mshearergrave1.jpg

mshearergrave2.jpg

mshearergrave3.jpg



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Hi Everyone:

What incredible work from those two Stonesfield craftsmen.  It's too bad the building fell into disrepair and was demolished.  Such a pity.

As to Miriam's grandchildren:

Amy had another daughter, Rachel, born in 1947

Kathleen's is correct (Daphne and Sheila are twins).

Can't verify Mabel's because she didn't live in Stonesfield.  I think she may have lived in Ramsgate.  That sounds familiar.

Harold married a Dutch girl after the war.  She was called Margaret (or Marga) but her Dutch name may have been something like Gretchen (or Gretcha).  They had another son, Duncan, born in the 1950s between Natalie and Russell.  Sadly, Duncan passed away a few years ago.  Natalie and Russell still live in Stonesfield.

Maisie's is correct, although I'm not sure if there wasn't another child born after Joanne.

As to Phil's comments about a manor (March 16):  there is a manor house in Stonesfield.  It's a grand house with an eight foot wall (my estimate) running round part of it.  It has a beautiful garden which could have been designed by Capability Brown, but I doubt that it was.  If you get to Stonesfield this summer have lunch at the White Horse.  It's the only pub in the village these days (there used to be about half-a-dozen) and was run by Olivers in the 1950s!

Thanks, Shane, for posting the photos of Harold's and Ernest's workmanship and the excerpt from Miriam's book.  An incredible story.

Barb

 



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Hi All,

One excerpt from Mariam's document that I find particularly nice involves Harold, who we know lost his life in WW1, and it reads as follows:

In Canada, Winnipeg, where my two elder brothers had gone in 1911, in their early 20's and with their knowledge of work, in that new country they were never idle.

I went out there 2 years later. One day we were out walking (my eldest brother and I), he said 'I want you to see two cinemas down Main Street, the Rex and Strand'.

When we got there he said 'Aren't they lovely'. I said 'Yes, but just cinemas'. But he said 'Just stand back and look at the frontage, the decorative work, flowers, leaves, scrolls etc, all done in plaster'. I said, 'Well, its lovely'. But he said 'Ern and I did all that' (Ernest was my other brother). But I said 'You couldn't do that'. Well, he said, 'We did, and one day someone will say, two Englishmen came out here and did that lovely work'

Well, just think how far my father's talents had gone, both sides of the Atlantic all because of a kind lady (my Grandmother) helping to the save the life of a sick man. If only she could have seen the result of her kindness, she would indeed be happy.

Indeed, and along with all the other buildings around Stonesfield, that seemingly simple act of kindness by Prudence did have far reaching effects.

The following photograph shows the 'Rex' in 1913 (taken from a newspaper) and although a poor quality image you can make out some of the ornate details. This seems to be the only picture that exists from this period.

rex1.jpg

Sadly though, the glory that you see in the picture above no longer exists as after years of neglect the building was torn down some 5 or 6 years ago.

rex2.jpg

It seems that between 1912 and it being torn down it had a number of names including 'The Epic' and also its seems a 'modern' facade was built covering the more ornate original frontage.

Some photographs that were taken prior to demolition perhaps give a closer peek at the work Harold and Ernest must have work so hard to achieve.

rex3.jpg

rex4.jpg

I'm sure that over the year many many people did stop, look and enjoy the detailed work that those two Englishmen, sadly though, not any more.

More pictures taken just prior to the demolition can be seen here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/christiansphotos/sets/72157604712641218

Thanks,
Shane



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Hi Barb,

I'm wondering if you might be able to cast your mind back to your years growing up in Stonesfield and confirm if I have the grandchildren of Miriam correct, please?

These is what the records re throwing up:

Amy Helen Shearer
m. Leslie F Huckins
Jul-Aug-Sep 1937
children
Dawn M Huckins b.1940
Wendy C Huckins b.1943

Kathleen Florence Mabel Shearer
m. Albert U Hanks
Jan-Feb-Mar 1945
children
Stephen D Hanks b.1945
Norma K Hanks b.1948
Daphne E Hanks b.1950
Sheila K Hanks b.1950
Robin D Hanks b.1960

Mabel Mildred Shearer
m. John R M Hewitt
Jan-Feb-Mar 1946
children
Kathryn W V Hewitt b.1947
Verity J Hewitt b.1950
John R Hewitt b.1956

Harold Griffin Shearer
m. ??? Woldhius
children
Natalie M Shearer b. 1949
Russell S N Shearer b.1960

Maise Victoria Shearer
m. Ronald A Wastie
Apr-May-Jun 1947
children
Jennifer L Wastie b.1950
Pete B Wastie b.1952
Lorna A Wastie b. 1959
Joanne Wastie b.1962

It looks like Mabel married and her children were born in Thanet (Margate, Ramsgate area) so maybe were not in Stonesfield.

I can't find a marriage for Harold Shearer, but I do see births for Natalie and Russell with a mothers maiden name of Woldhius, I'm only guessing that this is Harold's family really, I might be wrong there.

Thanks in advance for any help!
Shane



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Shane and I obviously writing messages at the same time so this is in reply to Shane's latest message:

 

Christine also meets up with us for coffee sometimes (usually Hilltop at Ramsden) and I'm sure she's on one of the video's too.

You're going to be busy Barb scanning through all the videos to see if you can spot us all.

Linda



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Hello Barb

I always make a note of the witnesses names as they often fit in somewhere and so I'm pleased to hear that they are part of your family.  

I knew Grace and Wilf Griffin very well.  They were Auntie Grace and Uncle Wilf to me and I have fond memories of visiting them down Peakes Lane.  They lived next door to Grace's parents who I knew as Grandma and Grampy Yeatman.  I'm not sure about Grace being Sunday school teacher, she did play the organ at Church and I can remember that she was secretary at Pickards.  Mary still lives in Stonesfield and we meet up for coffee quite often.  Mary has also attended a couple of the Family History days and she is on one of the videos.  Our Oliver link is that Mary and I share the same Gt Gt Grandmother - Mary Oliver (1822-1894).

I'll write separately about Canada once I've sorted out the information I have.  Most of the photo's I have are of my Grandparents.  I don't have any of Miriam and I had no idea Elsie went to Canada with a friend.  I always thought she went with her brother Jack.  I'm hoping that more information will come to surface through this messageboard.

Note for Shane:  I've just noticed that you have Mary Oliver's death as 1892 on the tree below but it is definitely 1894.  I would like to know where she is buried but I have not been able to find her grave - any ideas?

Bye for now - Linda

 



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Ahhhh yes, good spot there Linda, sorry, tried to do it quickly whilst eating lunch and look where it got me!

Hopefully the below now looks better!

olivergriffin2.jpg

Another connection here is a lady called Christine Partlett, I recall she is a descendant (her (great) grandfather I think) is Lobra Griffin, I think you went to school or worked with Christine didn't you Barb? - she came along to the second Family History Day. Her Dad Ernest Partlett is quite famed for a hand sketched map of Stonesfield he did in 1997 showing were everybody lived in Stonesfield in the 1920s, Oliver's and Griffin's everywhere!

Mary, daughter of Grace and Wilf, also came along to the first day, there are a few seconds of her in the video of that day too (wearing a red coat).

Thanks,
Shane

 



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Hi Linda:

Just a little bit of additional information, but not terribly important -  I think Daniel Harris and Martha Baker (witnesses at the wedding) were my great grandparents.  Their son, Thomas, married May Oliver (who are my grandparents).

To go back to your earlier post, Grace (Yeatman) and Wilf Griffin lived down Peakes Lane.  Grace was a Sunday School teacher for many years and worked for Norman Pickard at the gloving factory.  I think she was his secretary.  Their only daughter, Mary, may still be living in Stonesfield.  No doubt Shane will be able to come up with her married name.

In the same post you were wondering why Elsie went to Vancouver Island...my guess would be because of the weather.  Average winter temperature in Winnipeg is about -25C (yes that's minus!) while the average winter temperature on Vancouver Island is about +10C.  I think that was reason enough for many people to head further west.

I'm looking forward to seeing the photos you have of Elsie in Canada.  Are there some of Miriam as well?

Barb



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Hello Shane

Yes, I know Cobblers Mount.  This was Jack and Julie's home.  Julie was still living there and a few years ago she hosted a huge family gathering for us all in her lovely garden.

The family tree does make sense but you've got the wrong Mary marrying Gabriel!!  William Augustus sister was Maria Selina Oliver born 1859.  She married Gabriel Griffin on the 29th April 1882. (The witness names are Daniel Harris and Martha Baker - just in case this ties in with anything else).  They had four children: Cecelia (Sissy), Lobra, Fanny and William Wallace.  Maria died shortly after giving birth to another child in 1891.

I'm beginning to wonder if there is anyone left in Stonesfield and Finstock that we're not related to!

Great stuff - thanks - Linda

 

 

 



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Hi Linda,

Elsie and Miriam were certainly related through the Oliver tree, but I doubt they would have known the exact connection as the connection goes back a few generations, here is a quick little diagram show how Elsie, Miriam and also Maria and her husband Gabriel (who's great Grandmother was an Oliver) are all connected.

It all gets quite complex so I hope this makes some sense and is understandable:

olivergriffin.jpg

Also, just on an aside, I wonder if you knew that this is the house that Elsie lived at in when she passed away in 1961, Cobblers Mount in Chadlington?

cobblerslodge.jpg

Thanks,
Shane



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Thanks for the details about Elsie's marriage, this is all new information for me to add to my records. Her mothers name is wrongly transcribed - it was Whitley and Elsie was born in 1884 not the 'estimated' 1887!   I'm not sure when they returned to England.  Sadly George Thompson died.  The story I was told is that George had to go to settle the sale of some land (not sure whether it was Northamptonshire or Lincolnshire) and he had to cycle there.  Before we went he had cut his hand and while he was away the cut turned septic and he died of blood poisoning.  Elsie married again in 1929 to Todd Milne and they lived in Chadlington.

I've got some photo's of them all in Canada but I am going to start a new post on this as soon as I've gathered all my information together as I'm interested in why they chose to go to Vancouver Island and maybe between us all we may come up with an answer.  

With regard to the Griffin's in Stonesfield there were some on my branch but whether they were related to Miriam I don't know.  It may be that Elsie and Miriam were just friends or may be they were related in some way.  These are the details:

Maria Oliver (she was Elsie's Aunt and my Great Aunt) married Gabriel Griffin in 1882 in Stonesfield - his father was also called Gabriel.  Their daughter Fanny married William Ewart Yeatman a stonemason from Combe.  Fanny and William's daughter Grace married Wilfred P. Griffin in 1936 in Stonesfield - Wilf was a plasterer and  his parents were Mary Ann (nee Davis) and George Griffin.  

What a lot to unravel.  

Bye for now - Linda

 

 



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Hi Shane:

Here in Canada we have been hearing a lot about Passchendaele in the past year and I had no idea I had a connection to one of the men in the Canadian Forces who died in that battle.  My son goes to Winnipeg quite often.  I'll ask him to check out 877 Winnipeg Avenue and see if there is still a house at that address.  I noticed also that Miriam's son was named after her brother - Harold Griffin Shearer.  A lovely tribute to him.

Barb

 



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Hi All,

I had previously included on the tree diagram that Mariam's brother Harold had died in 1917, and as Barbara had picked up this was indeed due to WW1.

The following extracts from his Attestation Papers show that he signed up in Canada on April 8th 1916, to serve in the Canadian Over-seas Expeditionary Force.

haroldgriffinpapers15.jpg

 

The papers go on to give a description of Harold, his age, height, complexion, hair and eye colour  - you can almost build a picture in your imagination.

haroldgriffinpapers1.jpg

During WW1, the Canadian Army authorised the formation of 260 infantry battalions to serve in the Canadian Expeditionary Force, Harold served in the 44th Battalion.

The 44th disembarked in France on 12 August 1916, where it fought as part of the 4th Canadian Division in France and Flanders.

The well documented Battle of Passchendaele took place on the Western Front, from July to November 1917. More specifically a battle called 'The Second Battle of Passchendaele' commenced on the 26th October and went through to 10th November.  15,654 soldiers from the Canadian Forces were lost in that battle alone, and that number included Harold, Killed in Action, 28th October 1917.

haroldgriffinpaper3.jpg

Harold had been living in Canada for 4 or 5 years when he signed up, but Stonesfield never forgot one their sons and his sacrifices are remembered for all time on two village memorials.

Firstly, in the old school where Harold would have attended as a young boy:

warmemhg.jpg

And on the village memorial:

warmemhg1.jpg

warmemhg2.jpg

warmemhg3.jpg

Another ones of our boys lost to WW1 but always remembered.

I believe there is/was a large picture of Harold that hung on the wall of Protestant Cottage for many years, I wonder/hope that it might still exist, it would be nice to put a face to this hero.

So just coming full circle on the story or Miriam and Elsie travelling away together, it appears they both married in Canada, had a family in Canada and eventually returned to England - but also, both would lose a brother, Elsie her brother Philip, Mariam her brother Harold.

Thanks.
Shane



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Hi Phil,

I do know what you mean about Wood Green, its very different from anything else in Stonesfield, now and certainly it would have been back then in the 1920's when it was built - as far as I know it was all built at the same time, just as you see it in the picture. The thinking is that it's Canadian styled, following the time that Ernest lived there. Taking information from the Stonesfield Millennium book it says that Ernest and his family lived there for several years, then it was lived in by a couple called Alex and Flo Martin. It had new owners again in 1990 and apparently the surveyor described it as 'eccentric to the point of quirkiness'. It also details that a descendant of Ernest visited the house again in 2000 and remarked at how little it had changed.

Here's a picture from the Stonesfield Millennium book showing the house when it was the only house in the Brook Lane area of Stonesfield.

woodgreen2.jpg

You do not get such a clear view these days, a property call Rivertop has been added to part of the front garden and other properties have been added around it also - all you get now is a slight glimpse across surrounding properties - unless you have an invitation in of course!.

woodgreennow.jpg

Thanks!
Shane



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Hi Linda,

I'm still trying to track the journey home of Elsie, George and Jack, or even their entry in the 1921 Candian census if they were still there at that time, though I have been able to locate a marriage date, as follows:

Name: George Frederick Thompson 
Event Type: Marriage 
Event Date: 15 Apr 1916 
Event Place: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada 
Age: 29 
Birth Year (Estimated): 1887 
Birthplace: Rothwell Northamptonshire, England 
Marital Status: Bachelor 
Father's Name: Charles Thompson 
Mother's Name: Ada Marriott 
Spouse's Name: Elsie Oliver 
Spouse's Age: 29 
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated): 1887 
Spouse's Birthplace: Stonesfield Oxfordshire, England 
Spouse's Marital Status: Spinster 
Spouse's Father's Name: William Augustus Oliver 
Spouse's Mother's Name: Elizabeth Mutley 
Affiliate Film Number: B11371 
Certificate Type: License 

Very sorry to read of the death of Julie, Elsie's daughter-in-law I certainly do remember meeting Ian, he posted a hello here on the website - I hope Ian and all the family are coping as best they can at this difficult time.

Thanks,
Shane



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Hi All,

Lovely to read that the discovery of this family line is being enjoyed.

You're quite correct about Win Griffin Barb, the Oxford Mail included the following announcement in their 28th January 2015 edition:

'GRIFFIN WINIFRED ( WINNIE ) Passed away peacefully in her sleep at home on 15th January, 2015 aged 96 years. She will be sadly missed by all her family and friends. The funeral service will take place at St James the great Church, Stonesfield on Thursday 5th February, 2015 at 12 noon. Family flowers only please but donations welcome for St James Church c/o Greens Funeral Services, 21 High Street, Eynsham, Oxon, OX29 4HE'

wingriffin.jpg

I was actually visiting the churchyward in Stonesfield a few days after the funeral and there were a lovely array of flowers.

The Oxford Mail also included an article about Win back in 2007, titled 'Winnie retires, at 88'

wingriffin3.jpg

The Oxford mail reported:

Winnie Griffin is finally giving up her job to go into retirement - at the age of 88.

The great-grandmother started work at The Feathers Hotel in Market Street, Woodstock, at the age of 60 - when other women are calling it a day.

And, with her 89th birthday coming up on June 30, she plans to spend more time on her garden in Stonesfield.

"It is quite hard work which must have kept me fit," she said. "I've loved it here, but you have to leave some day."

Apart from cleaning and dusting and making sure the 20 bedrooms are tip-top, Mrs Griffin has enjoyed feeding the hotel parrot Johann every day.

Colleagues are planning "something special" for the housekeeper when she retires at the end of the month.

Clearly not being shy of hard work must be one her secrets to reaching such a wonderful age.

On your question about the family emigrating Barb, from what I can gather just now Harold, Ernest and Miriam all emigrated, Harold and Ernest in 1911 and Miriam in 1913, both Ernest and Miriam retuned to Stonesfield and yes Harold was sadly lost to WW1 - I will post more about him soon.

Thanks for now,
Shane



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 Hi Shane and all the Stonesfield Olivers.. Im loving this research and all the memories coming to the surface in Stonesfield.how pleasant it is to read of a family of brothers being such talented and capable housebuilders. The two detached houses are both well proportioned certainly blend in well in your beautiful village , but what was the brother thinking of when he built the bungalow with such an out of scale porchway in frontof it.Does anyone know if the bungalow had already been built and the pillared porchway added later.It looks as if it has been built later and squeezed in between the two dormer windows.Would a builder go to the expence of having those pillars made to go on the front of a bungalow.It looks as if they may have been taken from the front of a much grander building.Does anyone know if there was a manor house or mansion in the area which may have been demolished at the time.Im sure not knocking it. In fact its one heck of an architectural statement.Id love to see a current photo of it if it still exists.I must get down there in the summer for a looksee.......Phil from ****ermouth.



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Hello Shane and Barb

I've been to Norfolk for a few days so I'm just catching up with your latest discovery.  Yes, I'm sure that the Elsie Oliver on the passenger list is my Grandmother's sister.   Her brother Jack and my Grandparents also went to Canada at about the same time.  My Grandfather, Fred Rogers, left on the 17 June 1913 from Liverpool - just a few days before Elsie.  My Gran followed with my Uncle Phil (3 years old) on the 29 November, also from Liverpool.  She travelled on the Empress of Ireland which on a later return journey from Canada sank in fog.  The story was that Grampy went out first to get settled and then Gran followed.  Getting back to Elsie, she married George Thompson in Canada around 1916 and they had one son - Jack born in Canada in1917.  My Grandparents came back in August 1915 during WW1.  I'm not sure when Elsie returned.  I have another photo of Elsie and my Grandparents in Canada.  I'll try and put it on the message board later.

 It's quite a sad time for Elsie's side of the family at the moment as her daughter-in-law, Julie, died last Tuesday.  Jack died some years ago.  Shane you probably remember meeting one of their sons, Ian Thompson, at the first Family History day.

I'll send a separate message about the Griffin family connected to my branch - I'm not sure if they are connected to Miriam or not.

That's all for now  - Linda



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What lovely houses they are, Shane, and still impressive today.  Helen, who composed the Solomon Oliver song for the Family History Day, and her brother Arthur would have grown up in Colinwood, and I think Win Griffin lived next door with her family which included her daughter, Caroline, who was born in the late 1940s.  I believe Win may have passed away recently, but I may be wrong about this.

A couple of questions...Miriam writes that her two eldest brothers went to Canada but did they also return to Stonesfield?  If Harold died in 1917 was he a soldier in WW! or did he die in Canada and if Ernest built Wood Green it would be hard to believe he built it before he went to Canada at 21 years of age.  But maybe he did!

Thanks for posting the photos of these beautiful houses.  They are definitely a part of Stonesfield and Oliver family history.

Barb



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