The Oxford English Dictionary has several definitions of 'slop' but the one that seems to fit best here is 'An outer garment, as a loose jacket, tunic, cassock, mantle, gown, or smock-frock.'
The Oxfordshire Museums Service catalogue on Heritage Search has this picture of a garment which they call a slop:
They go on to describe it thus:
'a white linen, shirt style smock, made and used between 1800 and 1899. The unshaped body is gathered into the collar which is edged with a wavy line of single featherstitch between parallel lines of double featherstitch, with sprigs of featherstitch, in curves. There is a zigzag of single featherstitch along the shoulders and smocking at the top of the arms and above the cuffs. There is an embroidered featherstitch heart at the base of the front opening.'
NB this one is a 19th century one from Woodstock, so could well be the type of thing Edward wore.
Thanks for finding and posting that, I would definitely say this is naughty Edward, P.C. Quarterman is a familiar name from other newspaper entries!
It's certainly great to see such a description of my Great Grandfather, I've not seen anything similar before, and some really interesting information in there and one or two things I need to go away and google, 'white slops' for example
Ancestry now has a good collection of Police Gazettes. I don't know how fully indexed they are at the moment, but there are already gems to be discovered. For example, here's a description of an Edward Oliver: he looks to be the right age to be "naughty Edward" (i.e. 28 in 1880) and the policeman's name sounds familiar . . .
from Police Gazette, 6 October 1880
-- Edited by jane on Tuesday 17th of May 2016 12:57:44 PM
You have been busy in the Archives! I didn't know those photos had been in the paper. I remember the names of all the rounders team:
Back Row L-R Stephen Griffin, Roger Bishop, Barry Walton, Algy Anderson, John Nunn, Margaret Lonsdale, Bob Hain, Merv Bartlett, Terry Woodward
Front Row L-R Stephen Hanks, Rachel Huckins, Me, Norma Hanks, Janet Moss (I think), Judy Marks, Johnny Laughton. (I was flanked by cousins...but didn't know it at the time.) I don't think we brought home any trophies but it was fun being part of the team. I think it was organised by the Youth Club as Bob Hain and Margaret Lonsdale were Youth Club leaders.
The tradition of choosing the "Rose Queen of Stonesfield School" continued for many years. It was part of the annual school fete (fund raiser) which was held in June every year. That photo would have been from 1959. The person who performed the crowning ceremony that year was Mrs. Laughton. I don't know if it was the same Mrs. Laughton whose obituary appeared in one of the newspaper clippings.
I was talking to my mum yesterday and she said she thought one of Flo's daughters lived in Woodstock and that one of them was buried in Stonesfield. She said Ron used to look after the grave, but I'm thinking it may have been his parents' grave that he was taking care of. Where did the Wearings come from? Anywhere near Woodstock?
I was sorry to hear that Brenda had died. That would leave only Nora now and she would be about 95. Unless one of Flo's grandchildren has photos and memories of them there may not be any more information about this branch of the family...but never say never. This website reaches a lot of people!
Thanks, hmm, I think this branch is potentially going to be quite a tough one to explore.
You're right about Brenda, Harry and Darren living in Witney. Harry passed away in 2005. About 3 or 4 years ago I actually sent a letter to Brenda asking if she would mind talking to me and sharing some family information, of course as Flo's daughter she would be a great source of first hand information.
I never heard back and I've just done a little digging only to discover that she passed away in Aug 2013, so the chance to learn from Brenda has now unfortunately gone which is a shame.
Even though Flo and Harry lived next door to May and Tom I find I know little about this branch of the family (maybe because they all moved away). The nicknames for the 2 boys are correct. Ron never married, but lived with his parents until their deaths. Brenda, Harry and Darren came to my Dad's funeral. They were living in Witney at the time, I believe (2000). I remember Nora, Eva and Yvonne visiting at different times, but that's about all!
I do remember that Flo had several stuffed (as in taxidermy) animals in glass cases in her living room. There was a fox and several birds. It was very unusual and, apart from in natural history museums, I've never seen a collection like that since.
Sorry I can't help any more with this one, Shane. It was, however, interesting to see how many children Flo and Harry had. I learn something new each time I visit this website. Thanks Shane.
And now, here is the line that actually I know least about, so any input and validation (Barb!) would be much appreciated.
Flo and Harry Partlett's line:
Maud and Nora I think moved away from Oxfordshire to the Birmingham area. The marriages of Violet and Eva are purely based on records rather than knowledge, but both appeared to have married Wearings. I don't believe either of the son's Albert and Ronald married. I do know they both had nicknames though, Ron was 'Deccut' and Albert was 'Chocolate'.
Thanks for that, and please do continue to throw up these memories and leads!
I've been looking into the line of Fred and Lily a little more and have a couple of new leads.
Re: Rhoda, now she married Robert S Clark and they had two children Nancy in 1925 and Robert F in 1926.
They then move away to Leighton Buzzard. From the records it looks like Robert died in 1951 and Rhoda remarried in 1956 to an Edward Szynkowski. I could then see a death record for Rhoda Lilian Szymkowski, Dec 1976, Bedfordshire.
Then to Nancy. I think Nancy married an Aubrey D Shirley 1943, in Leighton Buzzard. Then it looks like they had two children Beatrice A Shirley b.1944 Leighton Buzzard, then possibly a Robert A Shirley Apr-May-Jun 1947, though this was in Witney, so perhaps they had moved back to Oxfordshire.
More digging needed here, but wanted to share that just in case that all rang any bells.
Other additions, my previous tree diagram missed of another child of Fred and Lily, Mabel E Oliver born in 1915. She married an Ernest Crutch, and I believe he may have died of malaria? maybe WW2 time?
The child John F, better known as Jack, married an Annie Oxenham and apparently they ran some sort of shop near Banbury.
Leonard also appears to have had a child, possibly out of marriage, called Geoffrey.
Ethel also had a further child, Frederick, born in 1940 and I think the family had possibly moved back to Oxford - her husband Harold Hollings was a London Taxi Driver.
Lots of bits and pieces here really, but hopefully a few more clues towards more solid facts. Will update and post a newer version of Fred and Lily's tree diagram also.
This family tree has dredged up some memories, but don't know if they are the right ones or not. In the 1950s I remember visits from Nancy Gershowitz (don't know if that is the correct spelling). I'm sure she was from Stonesfield but had married and left for Brooklyn, New York after the war. She had 2 sons: Barry and Robert. Robert was born in the late 1940s (around my age) and Barry was a few years older. This may not be Rhoda's daughter, but the fact that Nancy's son was called Robert and her father and brother were both called Robert may be just coincidence but then again maybe not...
I remember Rhoda and Leonard visiting May and Tom, but never realised they were May's niece and nephew! But then Aubrey Oliver lived a few houses down the road from us, and Billy Oliver lived opposite him and I didn't know that they were both related to my Dad.
I hope I'm not leading you on a wild goose chase, with those memories of Nancy, Shane.
Here now is an initial view on the line of Frederick, eldest son of Edward and Lydia, who married Lily Gough in 1901
There are still a few question marks here, and any updates, additions or corrections are gratefully received.
From what I understand Fred's son Ernest, better known as 'Dempsey', was quite a character around the village, here is on the far right of the picture.
He was born, lived and died in Stonesfield.
His son William or 'Billy' was also a well known in the village for many years, though he has now left the village.
Quite a big branch so lots to learn and discover here hopefully!
Great detective work Shane. Those little bushes were obviously planted by Lydia and Edward's children. I guess we'll have to wait until spring to find out what type of bush they are. Some type of very hardy perennial! Is there a plaque/stone at the foot of Edward's grave? I wonder how expensive it would be to have little plaques/stones put up as permanent markers for their graves?
I had a few minutes over at Stonesfield graveyard today as last week I got my hands on a sort of 'plan' of the graveyard and I wanted to try and figure out exactly where Edward and Lydia are laid to rest (as there are no gravestones).
It turned out well, with a bit of a nice moment actually as I think I have figured out exactly where they are, and whilst I've never spotted it before I think there has always been a clue left for us.
Firstly, per the graveyard plan I was able to confirm where I thought Lydia was, the plan says she was between person x and person y, there was just one space between them, so that was good confirmation.
So, to Edward, well the plan said he was in the next row from Lydia, but in a space between visible stones where 4 or 5 people are buried without headstones, see below:
Well, as I look at it now it looks obvious. Take a look at Lydia's plot, then look at the general space where Edward is - see the clue? - well, I'm pretty sure that the children of Edward and Lydia planted a little bush on each of their plots. The position of the bush in the space where Edward is also matches the order on the graveyard plan, so its where you would expect Edward to be.
So, I think that's it, there's no stones, but any descendent who wants to go and have a chat with Edward and Lydia, just look for those little bushes, I really feel beyond any reasonable doubt that both of them!
.. and thanks to Fred, Minnie, Flo, May, Frank and Albert for the clue, we figured it out in the end.
I had a good chat with Pam (need Woods) on the telephone last night and was able to gather a few extra pieces of information about the line of Minnie and Bill.
Specifically re: Frank Hopper, although he was from Kidlington, apparently he and Mary Reynolds met when Frank was living/lodging at Hanks Corner in Stonesfield (possibly working as a Coalman or something like that?).
They did however move and settle in Kidlington, at 4 School Lane where he ran his upholstery business from, also having a shop on the Cowley Road - a fine craftsman producing some lovely furniture apparently.
Here is 4 School Road in Kidlington now:
Pam told me about how Mary would walk the best part of 2 miles from Kidlington to the nearest bus stop to Stonesfield and catch the bus across to see Edie and Joe, and then catch the bus back again later - Stonesfield is still quite remote even with more regular buses and us having cars etc, it must have seemed even more remote back then,
Mary died quite young of a nasty muscle related issue at the Churchill Hospital in 1962. Frank suffered with his chest, presumably from his line of work and died in 1972 at Chipping Norton.
I hope there might be some old photo's of their business in one of those old photograph books of Kidlington or Cowley, I'll have a dig.
You're quite right about Hazel being a typist or telephonist at the GPO, as this record from 1951 when she was just 18 shows:
Apparently Hazel was a big animal lover, but sadly all contact has been lost for more than 40 years now.
I'll see if I can find any more and will post here if I do.
I didn't know that Frank also had pierced ears! Bill Reynolds' earring was exactly the same as the ones in the photo you posted - a small gold hoop.
I've been thinking about Frank Hopper and his shop. He may have been a furniture upholsterer. I think Bill Reynolds' son (also Bill Reynolds) was an upholsterer so I may be getting this muddled. I think Hazel was a telephonist or switchboard operator. Whether for GPO or a large company, I don't know. I hope Pam will be able to fill in the details here.
I didn't realise we were being watched in Moose Jaw! Yes, that webcam is accurate. It was cold yesterday (-27C when I woke up) but warmed up to -18C in the afternoon, and the sun was shining all day. A lovely clear blue sky as you can see.
Thanks for that reply - its interesting that you should bring up the topic of the earring as in the only picture I have of my own great grandfather Frank he also has a earring, one in both ears actually, and this was at the time of WW1 - like you, I'm not sure how common this was.
You're right about the stone of Edith, Joseph and Bob being at Stonesfield, here is a picture:
The story of Hazel is a bit of a mystery and currently I know nothing of her at all other than she moved away to Reading apparently, I am hoping to talk to Pam (nee Woods) in the week so perhaps something new will come to light there. I was aware that they lived in Kidlington but not that they ran some sort of the shop, so that's a new lead I can investigate, thanks for sharing that.
Thanks again! Shane
PS:
Reading your comment about clearing the snow from the driveway, I just took a look at finding a webcam in Moose Jaw - wow, oh yes you have snow, but today the sky does looks beautiful and clear!
What a wonderful photo. I don't know if Kim or Theresa will post anything here, and I don't want to still their thunder, but I do remember Bill and Minnie. Bill had a pierced ear with a little gold earring which was very unusual in the 1950's, especially for a man. Bob told me, many years later, that his grandfather had had his ear pierced because he'd been told it would improve his hearing. No guesses as to why his hearing was impaired!
I also have a memory of seeing the steamroller "tarring" the road (I think that was what it was called) on Churchfields. What a loud scary monster it was, and smelly too. I can't believe that Bill was still working in his 70s so I doubt if he was the one operating the steamroller.
It would be great if there was more information on Hazel Hopper. Frank and Mary lived in Kidlington and had some kind of shop, Edie, Joe and Bob are buried in Stonesfield. They were all cremated so their stone is in the section by the wall to the old primary school (St. James Centre).
I look forward to the next postings. Thanks Shane.
Here we have an initial tree diagram that I have prepared for the line of Minnie, who married William Reynolds (better known as Bill) - as always, happy to receive any updates, additions or corrections.
There appears to be some sadness in this line with Minnie and Bill losing two of their daughters in teenage years, I am not sure as to Mabel but I believe Linda died of Tuberculosis (TB).
Being one of the eldest of Edward and Lydia's children Minnie was married with children by the time of 1911 census, as the below illustrates:
Interestingly it shows that Minnie's husband Bill wasn't a local boy, he was born in Wolverhampton. Perhaps it was his work that brought him south, as we see on the census he was an 'Engine Driver (Steam Road Roller).
With great thanks to Minnie and Bill's Grandaughter Kim I'm pleased to be able to share this picture, with Bill stood up top:
What a terrific picture, what a terrific old machine.
On closer inspection of the little plate on the side of the engine we see it says 'Oxfordshire Steam Ploughing Co', they were quite big agricultural contractors and engineers based in Cowley, Oxford - presumably Bills employer.
Both Minnie and Bill are buried at Stonesfield in the old Churchyard, though I am not sure if there are stones, I've not yet located them at least.
Yes, you're right. No.1 & 2 Combe Road were the first two council houses. I don't know when they were built but it's likely that Tom and May were the first tenants at No.1. A lot more spacious than the cottage but not all mod. cons. If you walked through the kitchen and out the backdoor you'd find the wash house (or washing house - anyone still remember washing houses?) and the outside toilet. There was a bathroom in the house (with a huge bathtub) but if there was a toilet and sink in there they were never used. It was the outside privy every time! At the bottom of the back garden (which was as long as the front garden) was a hen house with laying hens. I well remember collecting eggs every day.
Those old photos are incredible. Those cottages really were out in the country! I wonder if their location had anything to do with them being by the driveway to the Manor. On all the photos both cottages had a porch, except for the one of the family taken in the early 1930s. For whatever reason it was taken down at that time, it obviously was replaced with the same size porch. In the early 1950s, Vernon Scarrott, his wife Josie and son Stephen were living in the cottage they had lived in, and Chris Berry, his wife Ruby and daughter Pauline lived in the other one.
I have to go and shovel snow from my driveway now, so that I can get my vehicle out. I'm sure Tom in Alberta and our cousins in Ontario know a little bit about shovelling snow from driveways!
Thanks again, Shane. I look forward to the next postings.
Aha, so I think I have it now, I had assumed that those cottages at the top of Combe Road where 1 and 2 Combe Road but actually the numbers probably only really came into effect when the first council houses were built.
So, the living next door at 1 and 2 Combe Road thing was actually these houses in the middle of the below picture, is that right?
Then on the cottage which I showed earlier, which you have now confirmed was where Tom and May lived until 1947 ...
.. here are some terrific old photographs from the Oxfordshire History Centre Photographic Collection (Image copyright Oxfordshire County Council Photographic Archive) of the cottage as it would have been at the time Tom and May were there when it was two.
These first couple are believed to be 1920/30's:
Then these ones are more 1950's .. perhaps starting to look more like you remember them Barb?
You can just about see the new houses in the background where Tom and May would have moved too - those new houses had great big gardens and great big rooms by comparison and probably many modern conveniences they were in the older cottage, its must have been quite a change, very exciting I expect.
Lots of new information here for me, Shane. This is great. I didn't know that there had been another daughter, Maud, or when and where Lydia and Edward had died. It will be interesting if you can find out if he lived in the workhouse for the last few years of his life, or was just in the infirmary because of illness. I noticed that Lydia died at home (address The Ridings) and remember that Minnie and Bill Reynolds lived in one of those cottages in the '50s and 60's. Maybe it was the same cottage. Like you, I greatly admire Lydia. Edward already had had a few convictions when they married in 1875, so she knew what she was getting into, but the reality must have been hard.
With regard to the cottages: The 2 cottages, in your photo, used to be 4 cottages and are at the beginning of the drive to the Manor. I don't think May and Flo lived in those, although I seem to have a vague memory of being told that Frederick lived in one of them. Billy Oliver or Clive might know for sure as they are Frederick's descendants. The photo of May, Tom and the twins was taken outside the other cottage. There were 2 cottages at that time and they lived in the one nearest to the war memorial. The upstairs window appears to be in the same location now as it was in the 1930's. I don't know who lived in the other cottage at that time. In 1947 Tom and May had moved and were living at 1 Combe Road which is the first council house. They lived there until they died (both in 1969). Flo and Harry Partlett were living next door, at 2 Combe Road. Between the 2 cottages and the council houses was some kind of telephone exchange with a telephone box (the only one in the village, I believe) located next to the pavement.
I really appreciate all the research you're doing Shane. Thanks.
My Great Great Grandmother Lydia Oliver nee Willis (Edwards Wife) was born in Hanborough in 1854.
Lydia is a women that I have come to have an enormous amount pride and respect for, I feel she was an incredibly strong women who probably had a tough life, certainly compared the life I lead today, but probably also in the context of those around her during her life and time.
Below are extracts from the 1881 and 1891 census records:
In 1881 we can see that Edward and Lydia have 2 children, Fredrick and Minnie, and Lydia and the children are living with Lydia's mother - this is at the time where Edward was serving his longest sentence, 2 years hard labour in Oxford prison.
Here in 1891 they have 6 children, again Edward is in prison, Lydia is the head of the house raising all 6 children ranging from a 15 year old to a 6 month old and all whilst working as a gloveress.
Then, add to this one additional piece of information that the 1891 census tells us about their daughter Maud - to the far right their is a column that includes the word 'Imbecile'.
By way of some general background here, as part of the 1851 census the act of gathering particulars of those suffering from infirmities was introduced, initially either Deaf and Dumb or Blind were terms used. By the time of the 1891 Deaf and Dumb, Blind, Lunatic, Imbecile or Idiot were the terms used - some of these terms are now seen as derogatory but at the time seen as medical terms.
There is unfortunately no clear definition of these terms but reading from various sources I think it would be probable that Maud had challenges and learning difficulties. Sadly, as the tree diagram shows at the start of this thread Maud passed away at just 16 in 1900.
I honestly feel that Lydia did a remarkable job as a wife and mother faced with some very tough circumstances and challenging times throughout her life, in reality she never really new any different, that was her life and with strength and determination she raised her family and made the best it I'm sure, and I'm proud of her for that. In my own life people have said that I have tenacity, a sense of determination or persistence, and if that is the case, its Lydia and ancestors like Lydia that I thank.
Lydia passed away 3 years before Edward in Stonesfield in 1928 - the same year her granddaughter, my grandmother was born. Again, her daughter May Harris was the informant and present at her death.
One item, small in size but for me quite big on poignancy, from the family history of this line is the following piece of correspondence:
It is a note dated 19th August 1931 from George J Fishlock, the master of the local poor law institution, to May Harris (Barb's Grandmother) informing May that her father (Naughty Edward) was seriously ill within his institution. The 'institution' was the Woodstock Workhouse, or poor house as it was also known, which at this time also had a Infirmary on site. Edwards wife Lydia died in 1928 and we don't know whether Edward was in the Workhouse prior to being taken into the Infirmary, however, there are some records from the workhouse that survive from this period, so I am planning to have a look into these to see if we can find anything further.
There had been a workhouse in Woodstock since about 1735 and it's interesting that Edward would have been one of the last inmates there as in 1930/1931 the workhouse became Hensington House, a home for the elderly and a nursery for illegitimate children under five. The building was demolished in 1969, and the site is now a car-park, fire-station and library.
The above note was dated 19th August and we then know that just two or three weeks later on the 10th September Edward passed away within the Infirmary, the informant again George J Fishlock.
Edward and Lydia are both buried at Stonesfield Churchyard, and whilst I know the rough spots (which are both near to each) there are sadly there are no gravestones.
I've corrected the tree diagram, so hopefully it now looks right?
Just on the cottage at the top of Combe road topic, you know I've never been 100% sure which building it is, I know that May and Flo lived next door to each other, one at No.1 Combe Road and one at No.2 Combe Road, so I have always assumed that it is these two cottages here, is that right?
But then I also wondered whether is was this cottage on the other side of the road and maybe once it was two smaller cottages now made into one.
Thanks for doing the tree diagram. That's a lovely photo of my sister. She died in October 2009 and we still miss her.
On the photo taken outside the cottage at the top of Combe Road I think Henry was on the left and my Dad on the right , which means they are reversed in the tree diagram. I phoned my Mum to verify this, but she didn't have the photo handy and unfortunately couldn't remember which side my Dad was on. If you know of anyone who would remember them from that time please feel free to check it out with them.
I've never been told that I have my Gran's eyes. (I think I'm more like my Dad's side of the family though, so maybe this confirms it.) I know I can't make a cup of tea like she did...but then I don't have a bottomless teapot!
If I can help with names or other information just let me know. I look forward to seeing more on this branch of the Oliver family and maybe hearing from some of Edward and Lydia's (great) grandchildren.
I was actually just working on a little tree diagram for your very branch, May and Thomas Harris.
But first, a quick reminder of a fabulous old photograph that you had kindly let me share elsewhere on this messageboard previously:
There we see May and Thomas with their twin boys, born 27th January 1920, Bernard (your Dad) and Henry, taken in Stonesfield at the top of the Combe road, a building that still stands today of course.
Both Henry and your Dad buried at Stonesfield:
Henry Harris b.1920, d.1989, aged 69, unmarred Bernard Harris b.1920, d.2000, aged 80, m.1947 Irene Messinger
One of the most fabulous things is that your Mum has been to all 3 of the Oliver Family History days, she has been so helpful wit hall kinds of family and village history, and great that you were able to make it across yourself last September.
Do you know, something that really struck me when doing the little pics for the above, you really have your Grandmothers eyes, have you noticed that before?
Northleigh Church is a lovely old church, Northleigh is where I lived from about 6 months to 23/24, I believe it's about 900 years old and Stonesfield about 800, so yes fairly similar in age.
Look forward to hopefully sharing more around our line here - if you spot anything incorrect or have any issues with the tree diagram above just let me know and I will happily amend.
'Naughty Edward' and Lydia are my great grandparents. What a character he must have been! It's so interesting to see the documentation from their lives. The marriage certificate (almost 140 years old - neither able to sign their names) and the record of Edward's appearances at the petty sessions...a bit of a regular as you said. But with only 13 recorded over 18 years, all for trespass and poaching, it was probably well worth the risk. I wonder what he was doing in Gloucester in 1880/81 (apart from poaching under an assumed name!). My that's a long walk home.
Their daughter, May, was my grandmother, and I well remember her sisters Minnie and Flo and their husbands and (most of) their children. I also remember visits from your great grandfather, Frank. It was always a happy occasion when he stopped in for a cup of tea. Lots of laughter.
Do you have information on Edward's siblings? It would be interesting to see who came down from Joseph's children.
I had never seen Northleigh church before. It looks as if it was built around the same time as St. James's in Stonesfield (I've always thought of the church in Stonesfield as Norman architecture, but I'm not sure if that is correct). Both around 800 years old, do you think?
I look forward to seeing more information on Edward, Lydia and their descendants.
Below is an image and transcript of the entry in the Hanborough church register for the marriage of Edward and Lydia, May 17 1875.
Transcript
1875 Marriage solemnized at the Parish Church in the Parish of Hanborough in the County of Oxford
May 17
Edward Oliver, of fill age, Bachelor, Labourer, of Stonesfield, son of Joseph Oliver, Labourer Lydia Willis, aged 20, Spinster, Gloveress, of Hanborough, daughter of John Willis, Tailor
Image
As with many of the original documents and registers that I have been lucky enough to see and hold, some reaching back over 300 years, coming into physical contact the document that was actually there at the wedding in 1875 gives a great sense of connection to that time and place.
Here are some graveside and general location photographs of my Great Grandparents Frank and Hilda, and Franks siblings May, Florence and Albert. Still need to locate Minnie and Fredericks final resting spots.
Buried at Northleigh Church
My own Great Grandparents: Frank Oliver, passed 25th September 1963, aged 73 Hilda May Oliver nee Hall, passed 22nd July 1972, aged 72
Buried at Stonesfield Church
May Harris nee Oliver, passed March 14th 1969, aged 80 Thomas Edwin Harris, passed May 10th 1969, aged 80
Florence Partlett nee Oliver, passed December 1962, aged 77 Harry Partlett, passed March 1960, aged 83
Buried at Charlbury Cemetery
Albert Oliver, passed 14th March 1984, aged 91 Mary Elizabeth Oliver nee Greenway, passed 9th July 1982, aged 80
I agree entirely Phil that for every time he was caught I'm sure there were countless times he got away with it, so for him perhaps he found that over time the balance and probability was favourable.
There are some good examples within our own Oliver Family History of high prices for seemingly minor crimes - the story of Solomon Oliver for example, in 1827 he and two others stole 3 or 4 Turkeys and took them into Oxford to sell - he was caught and sentenced to 7 years hard labour in Bermuda! So a week or two as at her majesty's pleasure in the local prison seems a much lighter sentence.
And persistent he was indeed, as the newspaper clipping below shows by 1889 'The Old Offender' was well known to the local authorities:
Hi Shane. Re naughty Edward. .My that raised a good chortle or two.One can just imagine their worships getting hot under the collar. Stealing a hare from the landed gentry.Its a wonder they didn't express a loss of patience with his heinous behaviour and send him on a cruise to Van Deimen's Land.Only 20 yrs previously people were being transported for much less.I wonder if he thought about who would put food on the family table while he was a guest of her Majesty.Could even be he didn't need to poach game and just considered it as a contest of wills between him and the forces of law and order.For every time he was caught id guess there would be a dozen times he got away with it.Whatever ;I tip my hat to a gentleman of skill and perseverance....Phil
I am now into the 8th year of this 'labour of love' that is researching the my Oliver ancestry and along the way I have learnt many a lesson.
One main lesson is around patience and persistence, and that you should never give up hope on finding that fact, photograph, link, clue or whatever if might be that seems to be forever illusive.
From the very early days I knew that my Great Great Grandfather Edward was, well, a bit of character. Here is an early newspaper cutting that I had located concerning him and his brother Jesse:
As I dug deeper, it became apparent he was a bit of a regular at the petty sessions (!):
I honestly see this as a splash of vibrant colour in my ancestry and feel that ultimately Edward was simply trying to put food on the table for his family, often paying the price for his methods.
It became a bit of a mission to somehow find out what he looked like and marry a face to the stories, thought I thought it was very unlikely that I would.
However, several years into the research and through meeting a cousin at one of the Family History Days (who shares Edward as an ancestor) it came to light that one old picture does exist - you can imagine my excitement on the day of finally meeting Edward face to face, as it were.
It taken almost 8 years, but coupling the picture of Edward with other images of his children that I have managed to locate bit by bit over time, including Frank Oliver my Great Grandfather, I am finally able to collate the below:
So never give up the search - I'm pleased and proud to be able to now put faces of these folks in my own branch of what we know to be a massive Oliver family tree. I will use this thread to post various other pieces about this line and the people that descend from Edward, and would love to invite anyone (including those who also descends from this line) to add in anything that they would like to add, pictures, stories, recollections etc,
Edward Oliver b.1851 d.1931 m.1875 Lydia Willis
Frederick Oliver b.1875 d.1954 m.1901 Lily Gough Minnie Oliver b.1880 d.1963 m.1901 Bill Reynolds Maud Oliver b.1884 d.1900 Unmarried Florence Oliver b.1885 d.1962 m.1908 Harry Partlett May Oliver b.1888 d.1969 m.1912 Thomas Harris Frank Oliver b.1890 d.1963 m.1920 Hilda May Hall Albert Oliver b.1893 d.1984 m.1922 Mary Greenway
