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Post Info TOPIC: George William Oliver born 1881 died 1931 of Studley Road and Bower Street Hartlepool


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RE: George William Oliver born 1881 died 1931 of Studley Road and Bower Street Hartlepool
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Ah, thank you Christine, and I'm really looking forward the story of this/your family line being part of the gathering in December! .. and I remember enjoying my trip to the North East so much, I need to go back one day again so can have a ride on the transporter bridge which was closed last time!



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Had a look at the lovely pictures and videos Shane and the family have brought together.  So I wish to thank Shane for his hard work and time to put this together for all the Oliver family.



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393.jpg

 

A very young Mary Ann Oliver (nee King).

 

390.jpg

 

Freddie and young Evelyn.



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384.jpg

 

Mary Ann Oliver attending grave of her late husband George William.



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Now that is a lovely picture Christine.I am assuming you have now turned a corner in your rehabilitation and recovery. It seems like a bad year is going to be followed by a VERY good one.So good to see a radiant smile.Your caption just mentions young Evelyn as ''London" and Heather not as her daughter. We know ,but it might confuse others.Can you date the picture of George and Mary...Is Evelyn still at Scarborough.She lived in a lovely bungalow when I went with brother Chris to auntie Evelyn's funeral. How I wish now that I had been interested in these things while I was at home.Mum may have told me much if I had asked.A similar veil of secrecy existed on my dads side of the family and I never picked up on the comparative lack of closeness between my dad and his sisters and brothers, particularly between mum and one of dads sisters.Happily this died with them and though not seeing my Burley cousins much old differences have died with them. No revelations are likely to upset me even if EVERY new picture does moisten the eye.I have a feeling my brother George knows much about the past but doesnt talk much unless I ask him a direct question.He was old enough to notice mums loneliness before during and after the war living in Denton. On top of this George has a more sentimental nature than I do and he doesnt talk much about things long ago.We are looking out at fellsides with a covering of snow wondering if it will ever get warm and let up get outside.Perishing cold at end of April is not for me. bye for now and thank you......Phil



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Hi Shane. Just seen this message. I think you are right.Its probably Olga...More communication soon .



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Evelyn and Heather.jpg

 

Picture of Evelyn (daughter of Evelyn London nee Oliver ), Christine Frahm, (daughter of Frederick Oliver ) Heather Jemison (daughter of Evelyn)

 

Cousins first meeting since all were very young, to chat about grandparents and great grandparents.

 

Christine.



-- Edited by Chris on Friday 29th of April 2016 11:02:55 AM

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Hi Phil,

Interesting, yes I was looking at that also, I felt pretty sure it was one of the sisters on the far right, but I was wondered if it was Olga ??? ...

Shane



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Hi Shane .That may be Gladys Brotherton on the right  at about 40yrs old.



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Hi Phil,

Please, you keep on watching, you keep on enjoying and you keep on listening to the stories and memories that the photographs are recalling to you, its an amazing thing that the images are able to create such of sense of feeling.

I actually located Andrea and her siblings just about a year ago and managed to make contact with Andrea, in fact, if you look a little further back up the thread here Andrea actually joined and posted here a couple of times back in January 2015, then it was almost a year later that Andrea kindly shared the photographs included in the video.

It seems Charlie was married in the same church as Christine:

charlie1.jpg

charlie7.jpg

Thanks
Shane



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Shane . can you let me know the circumstances of how contact was made with Charles grand daughter or did your research lead you to her.I have only watched the video about10 times so far.EVERY photo I am trying to date as faces grow older.There is one of Olga Preston in middle age just as I remember her.Do I sound mawkish and sentimental if I swear I can hear pictures like this talking to me.......HNYear and thanks again   Phil



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Hi Phil,

Really pleased you enjoyed that and thank you for letting me know, I was happy with how it came out and I felt it told the story of journey here nicely. Was especially nice to have been able to include Charlie as literally up to 24 hours ahead of its production no 'post UK' pictures were known - great thanks to Charlie's Granddaughter Andrea for sharing - I'm not 100% on the last picture, my thinking is also mid to late 1970's but I will try and find out some more and report back.

Shane



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Oh Shane .You do know how to make a grown man cry. That is simply beautiful.The  1951 family photo  is the  last time Charles would see any of his brothers and sisters apart from Olga who visited him once in Canada.I often wonder if they sensed this at the time. Most of the other photos I have not seen before and  especially the last one but I wonder where and when it was taken.Certainly post 1968 as freddie is absent from it.Possibly late 1970s. But where and what was the occasion.Do you know?Christine has mentioned several Olivers were at her wedding and George gave her away, but whether Mollie and Gladys were there I do not know...Excuse me while I reach for another Kleenex.



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It's really quite something to look back at that first posting just over three years ago and to see how the stories and photographs within this line have gradually unveiled themselves into a lovely collection - and it's with thanks to all of the descendants who have kindly and generously shared their family treasures that I would like to share this little video both to those descendants and also the wider Oliver Family - I hope it might be enjoyed as much as I enjoyed making it - Happy New Year!



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Hi  Shane . Further thoughts on the photo of the Brothertons and McKellar /Harrisons with granny Oliver. My tuppence worth  on this is that it was taken at Hartlepool or Seaton Carew.Harry Harrison Looks 15 or so  and that would date it 1950/1951, about the time granny Olivers daughters took it in turn to go  home to nurse their mother for a week or so in their turn. for both Gladys and Mabel not too difficult a train journey. Gladys and Ernie didn't have a car ,don't know about Mabs and Duncan. I cant imagine granny Oliver travelling anywhere in the last 2 or 3 years of her life,so perhaps this was  when the 2 sisters met, one arriving and the other leaving..........Unless anyone knows different?????



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Hi Phil,

Super! thanks for confirming that, and nice to hear that it was a new photo for you that recalled just how you remember them all.

Yes, like you, these old photo's do always make me ask lots of other questions too, like you say, where was it, what was the occasion etc, and sometimes just simple things like, I wonder what they talked about that day, how they got to there, what they had for lunch! - I imagine it probably wasn't the height of summer when it was taken, with the jackets and cardi's and all...

Glad you enjoyed the pic, its a nice one!

Shane  



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Hi Shane. Just logged on to site after a shortish blast out for a few miles on my racing trike.First really nice day since Easter.Id forgotten what some of the hills are like round here.Must get the spanners out and put some lower gears on it more suitable to my creaking legs.I just clicked on and saw the lovely photo. Your id's on all are correct.The young lad is certainly Harry Harrison and that is  ,who was in my childhood "unca dunc"..Its a new photo to me and is just how I always remember Gladys and Ernie an Mabel and Duncan in very early middle age.Looking at photos like that I always ask myself if its a family photo,"who was behind the camera".Did whoever gave you the photo say who took it or what the occasion was.best wishes to  all....Phil



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Here is another terrific photograph kindly shared by descendants within this family branch, but whilst some are clear is anyone able to confirm the identity all the folks? I have added my thoughts but would love to know if we can confirm..

whoiswho.jpg

Thanks!
Shane

 



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Hi Shane,

I have enjoyed seeing your pictures and video.  It is the first time that I have seen the Gravestone of George and his parents, too many memories for my Mom I think to take Michael and I there, now it is recorded for posterity.  I do hope you enjoyed your visit to Hartlepool and the surrounding area. The sea can be lovely when the sun shines!!!

You have gathered together a lot of information on the family tree and I thank you. 

 

Best wishes Christine 



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Thanks for that Irene, please you enjoyed it, in no small part it was possible because you kindly shared a number of those photographs, so thanks again for that, it brought some lovely memories for you hopefully!

Hope all is OK down there in Colchester with you and John.

Shane 



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Weddings in the past.

That was terrific Shane.  Lovely to look at the fashion of the day!  Gave me such a lift on a very dull day.

Irene



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Shane Bywaters wrote:

Hi All,

During the last week a couple from within this family branch, Ronald and Olga Preston, have been celebrating a wonderful milestone, 60 years of marriage - many congratulations to them!

I don't have a photograph from their wedding day (unfortunately!), nor do I have a photograph of their 60th celebrations (unfortunately again!!)


 
Hi All,

With great thanks to members of Olga's family branch I'm so pleased to be able to share the little 'Oliver Wedding Photo' montage below which includes pictures of Ron and Olga and helps mark their special occasion!

Thanks,
Shane



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Hi All,

During the last week a couple from within this family branch, Ronald and Olga Preston, have been celebrating a wonderful milestone, 60 years of marriage - many congratulations to them!

I don't have a photograph from their wedding day (unfortunately!), nor do I have a photograph of their 60th celebrations (unfortunately again!!), however, it seems like a perfect moment to share another lovely wedding photograph that does exist from within the family branch.

With kind permission from Phil, I'm pleased to share a photograph from the Wedding Day of Mary Ann 'Mollie' Oliver and Harry Hume (Phil's parents). The wedding was in 1927 in Burley, Wharfdale.

harrymollie1.jpg

I had raised the question back in September as to whether any further photographs existed of George William (Mollie's Dad) other than the one in the post at the very head of this thread, and here we see him, seated far right, his wife Mary Ann beside him and his youngest daughter Olga on his knee.

A great photograph, thanks Phil!

Shane



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Hmm, interesting Phil, it may also simply be a red herring on the part of the records i.e. some transcription error or mix up in the records database. I suspect Mary, who is still alive, will be the only one who can confirm with complete certainly.

I have been able to squeeze one or two further pieces of information to the surface however.

Firstly, I was always looking for the name McKeller, but trying out some variants I discovered the correct spelling to be MacKellar.

So, armed with this I was able to find the following marriage record:

Duncan Mackellar and Elizabeth M Harrison (Oliver) Oct-Nov-Dec 1947 in West Hartlepool, so they did indeed marry before heading north.  
Note: Similarly to her marriage to Smith Wharton Harrison Mabel has registered the marriage as Elizabeth M rather than Mabel, which is the name her birth was registered in, Mabel Oliver.

Then, I located the following, the death registration of Mabel Mackellar 1995, Paisley, aged 82:

mabel_d1.jpg

And then, the death registration of Harry Harrison 1997, East Kilbride, aged 62:

harry_d1.jpg

So that fills in one or two more gaps on dates etc.

Thanks,
Shane



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Hi Shane.That is a surprise.I don't think any stirring of whats left of my grey matter will bring anything to the surface about Harry Harrison's possible second wife.I never heard mention of this before.If this  second marriage did happen in 1963,at that time  Mabs and Mollie were both still in frequent contact with each other and occasional visits to each other taking place. I was then of an age to be doing my own thing and never went to Paisley, and I never heard any mention of it. However ,I did get up to Harry's funeral with my eldest daughter Claire.A guess would be that it was about 1988/1991 time.I had never met Harry and it was the first time I met his [ex] wife  Mary. pretty sure there was no other wife there. Could be one of two reasons .was the second marriage a failure and Harry went back to Mary or in the intervening years the second wife died and Harry went back or maybe didn't go back to Mary and Mary was there at her ex husband's funeral.I've had no contact since I'm afraid.I cant accurately date his funeral but around that time I took Mollie to see Evelyn in a nursing home in Scarborough[their last meeting] and among  a great many things talked about ,including Harry and Mary,but again no mention of a second wife......Now that was what I call a good  plate of fish and 5 penn'orth.....Phil



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Hi Shane.That is a surprise.I don't think any stirring of whats left of my grey matter will bring anything to the surface about Harry Harrison's possible second wife.I never heard mention of this before.If this  second marriage did happen in 1963,at that time  Mabs and Mollie were both still in frequent contact with each other and occasional visits to each other taking place. I was then of an age to be doing my own thing and never went to Paisley, and I never heard any mention of it. However ,I did get up to Harry's funeral with my eldest daughter Claire.A guess would be that it was about 1988/1991 time.I had never met Harry and it was the first time I met his [ex] wife  Mary. pretty sure there was no other wife there. Could be one of two reasons .was the second marriage a failure and Harry went back to Mary or in the intervening years the second wife died and Harry went back or maybe didn't go back to Mary and Mary was there at her ex husband's funeral.I've had no contact since I'm afraid.I cant accurately date his funeral but around that time I took Mollie to see Evelyn in a nursing home in Scarborough[their last meeting] and among  a great many things talked about ,including Harry and Mary,but again no mention of a second wife......Now that was what I call a good  plate of fish and 5 penn'orth.....Phil



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Here is a good one for you Phil and Christine to scratch your grey matter about....

Olga Flack had a little line on her Oliver Family tree from Harry Harrison (son of Mabel) to the name Mary - his wife I assumed.

When I spoke to Gladys (daughter is Gladys) a couple of weeks back she told me that Mary was still alive in East Kilbride (I'm sure I confirmed it was Harry's wife Mary and not a daughter called Mary, though I am questioning myself now!).

So I've just been searching some Scottish Records and found the following:

harryharrisonmarriages.jpg

Entry 1, marriage of Harry Wharton Harrison (looks to be the right one as his father was Smith 'Wharton' Harrison) to a Mary McMahon Birney in 1957 - so the Mary is good, the location of Paisley is good, we could say here we have confirmed the marriage of Harry Harrison that matches Olga's tree.

What has then confused me is the second entry - it looks like a second marriage for Harry, to a Grace Barron Brown in 1963 - it must the same Harry surely with the 'Wharton' middle name - so is the Mary that is still alive in Scotland actually an ex wife?

I'm wondering if any of these additional pieces of info like dates and spouse name might resurrect some memories - its got me a bit confused.

Thanks,
Shane



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Hi Phil,

Thanks! I'm pleased you've enjoyed a few of the snaps I've popped on here from my little whistle stop 3 day trip to the North East.

It all started 8am at the Angel of the North (Olga territory) ..

trip1.jpg

.. then through Sunderland and down the Durham Heritage Coast towards Hartlepool, stopping off a Seaton ...

trip2.jpg

.. first stop in Hartlepool was your Uncle George ..

 

trip12.jpg

.. then Heugh Battery Museum and Cliff Terrace ..

trip3.jpg

.. then into the centre of Hartlepool and the Hartlepool Museum ..

trip11.jpg

.. and HMS Trincomalee ..

trip4.jpg

.. then down towards Middleborough via some industrial scenery ..

trip5.jpg

.. stopping for a look at the transporter bridge (which was sadly closed) ..

trip6.jpg

.. south onto the Cleveland Heritage Coast and out to Marske by the Sea and Saltburn by the Sea where Stephen Oliver first moved to .. 

trip7.jpg

.. a little trip to what I understood to be the smallest Church in England at Upleatham (but actually it is not!) ..

trip8.jpg

.. past some snow on the hills ..

trip9.jpg

... onto Brotton and Skinningrove where Olivers mined for many years ..

trip10.jpg

.. onwards through some blustery coastline north of Whitby ..

trip14.jpg

.. and ultimately reaching Whitby itself, where ...

trip15.jpg

.. of course, Fish and Chips at the Magpie Café just had to be done ..

trip16.jpg

And that was Day 1!

Thanks,
Shane



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Courtesy of social media, here is a picture of Olga (nee Brotherton) and Ronald Preston ... 

olgapreston.jpg

Thanks
Shane



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ancient rowman wrote:

 I'm pretty sure the other one was taken in the front garden at 40 Caxton Road ,Otley.


 Hi Phil,

You were right about the photo of Gladys and her brother Ernest being taken at Caxton Road, here it is today (well, last week!):

caxton.jpg

And one of the highlights of the trip, meeting Gladys herself and her son Kevin:

kevinandgladys.jpg

Interestingly, the house in the background of the picture of Gladys and Ernest was lodged in by Ronald Preston when he was in Otley working for BT, and that's how he and Olga met, they of course married and moved to Ronald's hometown of Newcastle, apparently Olga's accent is now pure jordie - incidentally, this year Olga and Ronald will celebrate their diamond wedding anniversary, what a fabulous milestone.

Thanks,
Shane



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Hi again. I just omitted to say it was  your mums memories about card games that id almost forgotten about.Phil



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Hi ...Just seen the newly posted photos of young Ernie ,and Gladys. I don't know where the seaside one was taken but I'm pretty sure the other one was taken in the front garden at 40 Caxton Road ,Otley.To kevin and Susan;you probably wont remember me.ImPhilip Hume youngest son of your grans eldest sister Mollie who lived in Burley.Ijust remember you Susan but don't think I ever met you Kevin. Could you remember our side of the family to your mum. Both my brothers George and Chris are still alive but sadly both lost their wives in recent years.George in particular knew your mum well many years ago.Ibelieve en ex girlfriend of his was a good friend of your mum's ..Vera Binns.George tells me she too passed away very recently.Probably less than a year ago nothing of the West Hartlepool branch of the Oliver family was known to this site and now cousins, and  second cousins from both sides of the Atlantic are coming together.Imsure we would all love to share any memories and photos you would care to post.Your mums comment about these woke up happy memories that had been dormant for decades....best wishes to you all   .........Phil



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Hi All,

A little bit further up in the thread we had included the diagram below illustrating the line down from Gladys.

gladysline1.jpg

Well now, with very kind permission from Gladys herself (Norris nee Brotherton, eldest daughter of Gladys Brotherton nee Oliver) and her son Kevin, we are able to see one or two new photographs from this branch.

Firstly, her is Gladys herself with her brother Ernest, my guess would be late 1940's/early 1950's perhaps.

gladysandernest1.jpg

Then here we have a super photo from what looks like a day at the beach, from left to right we have Ernest Brotherton, Glady Brotherton and Olga Brotherton and they are with their Uncle Frederick, Christine's Dad! I would say this is perhaps late 1930s (?).

ernestgladysolgafreddy.jpg

Lovely photos, thank you for sharing Gladys, I'm sure these will be enjoyed by the cousins on here too!

Shane



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Hi All,

Below I have attempted to consolidate the various threads of information we've gathered recently as to the descendants of George William Oliver (b.1882) and his wife Mary Ann nee King.

Children (8)

Grandchildren (15)

Great Grandchildren (35)

Please feel free to call out with any additions, corrections, omissions, what middle initials stand for etc. The b.year, m.year and d.year are registration years.

Thanks
Shane

 

George Oliver b.1904 (Hartlepool), d.1997 (Hartlepool), Unmarried


Mary Ann 'Mollie' Oliver b.1905 (Hartlepool), d.1994 (Keighley) m.1927 Harry Hume (Wharfedale)

 George C Hume b. 1930 (Wharfedale) m.1954 Audrey Slater (Wharfedale)

  David Hume b.1957 (Wharfedale)

  Diane Hume b.1959 (Wharfedale)

 Christopher D Hume b.1938 (Wharfedale) m.1963 Diana Heaps (Wharfedale)

  Richard D Hume b. 1965 (Leeds)

  Stephen Christopher Hume b. 1967 (Wharfedale)

 Philip H Hume b.1946 (Wharfedale) m.1970 Kathleen Doran (****ermouth)

  Claire Hume b.1972 (Whitehaven)

  Janet Hume b.1977 (Whitehaven)

  Paul Hume b.1979 (Whitehaven)

 

Evelyn Oliver b.1908 (Hartlepool), d.1992 (Scarborough) m.1930 William Thompson London (Scarborough)

 Evelyn London b.1930 (Scarborough) m. 1958 Harry Graham (Scarborough)

  Heather Graham b.1960 (Scarborough)

  Ian D Graham b.1960 (Scarborough)

 George W G London b.1935 (Scarborough) m. 1957 Joan Devonport (Scarborough)

  Julie K London b.1958 (Wandsworth)

  Michael W E London b.1963 (Eton)

 

Gladys Oliver b.1910 (Hartlepool), d.1994 (Leeds), m.1928 Ernest Brotherton (Wharfedale)

 Gladys Brotherton b.1929 (Wharfedale), m.1947 Wilfred Norris (Wharfedale)

  Susan Norris b.1953 (Wharfedale)
  
  Kevin Norris b.1957 (Wharfedale)

 Ernest Oliver Brotherton b.1931 (Wharfedale) d.1999 (Leeds), Unmarried

 Olga Brotherton b.1934 (Wharfedale), m.1955 Ronald Preston (Wharfedale)

  Ian R Preston b.1956 d.1960 (Newcastle upon Tyne)

  Stuart D Preston b.1960 (Northumberland South)

  Lesley A Preston b.1962 (Northumberland South)

  Andrew Martin Preston b.1966 (Northumberland South)

 

Mabel Oliver b. 1912 (Hartlepool), d.?? m.1934 Smith Wharton Harrison (Wharfedale), m.?? Duncan McKeller (??)

  Harry W Harrison b.1935 (Wharfedale), d??, m.??

 

Charles James Oliver b.1918 (Hartlepool), d.1990 (Canada), m. 1948 Winifred M Swales (West Hartlepool)

 Denise Oliver b.1948 (West Hartlepool), m. ?? Rick Paxman (Canada)

  Kevin Richard Paxman b.1973 (Canada)

  Michelle Denise Paxman b.1976 (Canada)

  Andrea Charleen Paxman b.1978 (Canada) 

 Richard C Oliver b.1948 (West Hartlepool), m. Vicki ?? (Canada)

  Devin Oliver b.?? (Canada)

  Kent Oliver b.?? (Canada)

  Graham Oliver b.?? (Canada)

 

Olga Oliver b.1921 (Hartlepool), d.2012 (Essex), m.1948 Victor J Flack (West Hartlepool)

 Victor J Flack b.1949 (Edmonton), m.1973 Sandra G Watts (Brentwood)

  Sarah Therese Flack b.1977 (Birmingham)

  Toby Flack b.1979 (Brentwood)

 Colin W Flack b.1952 (Edmonton). m.1972 Jacqueline C Mabbett (Brentwood)

  Nicola Louise Flack b.1974 (Basildon)

  Vashti Nadine Flack b.1977 (Thurrock)

  Colin Victor S Flack b.1982 (Brentwood)


Frederick Emmanuel Oliver b.1924 (Hartlepool), d. 1968, (Staincliffe) m. 1954 Elizabeth Brown (Durham South Eastern)

 Christine Oliver b.1955, m.1976 Malcolm Casey (North Cleveland), m.1993 Karl Fraham

  Emily Casey b.1978 (North Cleveland)

  Louise Casey b.1980 (North Cleveland)

 Michael F Oliver b.1958, m. 1979 Lorraine M Wright (North Cleveland)

  Caroline Oliver b.1979 (North Cleveland)

  Kelly Oliver b.1982 (North Cleveland)

  Michael Leslie Oliver b.1983 (North Cleveland)

  Martin Daniel Oliver b.1988 (North Cleveland)

  Channelle Oliver b.1990 (North Cleveland)



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ancient rowman wrote:

married Ernest BROTHERTON and lived all her married life in Otley.Her son young Ernie died not long after her and never married.Believe her eldest daughter was called GLADYS.She had children .Her youngest daughter olga is ihope still alive.She last contacted me 5 years ago after the terrible floods we had here.she has/had the most gorgeous long blonde hair and rosy cheeks.


 

Hi Phil,

Just a quick note, I'm sure that you will be delighted to know that both Gladys Norris and Olga Preston are both still alive and well, Gladys in Otley and Olga in Newcastle.  In fact Gladys has been shown this website which she really loved!

I've had a memory relayed to me Phil which I wonder if you also recall - that of your Mum Mollie and Gladys and possibly also Evelyn often playing cards together? (late 50s/early 60's)

Thanks,
Shane



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Just another quick little record here that I located, sometimes these probate records can give some interesting new information, though to be honest I think we're quite fortunate in that most of the below is already known, though I thought I would post never-the-less:

Name: Mary Ann Oliver
Probate Date: 19 Mar 1954
Death Date: 12 Feb 1954
Death Place: Hartlepool, England
Registry: Durham, England 

maryanneprobate1.jpg

Thanks,
Shane



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Just a little more information here on John Swales, first wife of Winnie Oliver:

swales1.jpg

Panel 43 relates to the Tower Hill Memorial which commemorates men and women of the Merchant Navy and Fishing Fleets who died in both World Wars and who have no known grave. It stands on the south side of the garden of Trinity Square, London, close to The Tower of London and includes some 35765 identified casualties.

towerhillmemorial.jpg

Thanks,
Shane



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I'm always beavering away in the background you see Christine

So, pleased that you joined us here Andrea, thank you for that.

You've already solved one mystery that was confusing me, Winnie Swales or Winnie Scott, actually both are correct of course as she was previously married before Charlie.

Re: John/Johnny Swales, there is a WW2 War Memorial in West Hartlepool at Victory Square which has the name John Swales included, I'm sure it must the same:


westhartlepoolww2memorial.jpg

The above image (by John Dixon) and more information including a full transcript of names can be found here http://www.newmp.org.uk/detail.php?contentId=10776.

Look forward to hearing more Andrea as and when you have the time - great to have another cousin from this line join the party!

Thanks,
Shane 



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Shane actually contacted me. 

My brother, sister and myself all live in Ontario, Canada. My brother Kevin is in Guelph, my sister Michelle is in Newmarket and I am in Tottenham. My sister is married to Bart Vandebelt and together they have one son, Wolfgang Amadeus Heert. My common law spouse is Brian Varcoe and together we have two children, Brody Brian Varcoe and Kyla Andrea Varcoe.

I was in contact with Olga quite a few years back. I lost her email though but as I see she has since passed.

Both Charles (went by Charlie) and Winnie have passed on. 

Any questions please feel free to ask. I am at work at the moment but I will try to go through some pictures and post them when I get a chance.



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Welcome Andrea to the website we have been hoping that Uncle Charles family will find the website.  I see that you are the third child of Denise.  Where are you all living now.  Shane will be so pleased that you have made contact through the website, the Oliver's descendants at Bower Street are a curious lot it  seems there are several of your distant cousins on here, Heather Jemison, Charles' Sister Evelyn's granddaughter, Phil Hume, Molly's third son, Me Christine, Fredericks daughter, you will see Charles and Fred together on Dad's own topic Heading, Frederick Emmanuel Oliver, Your Great Uncle George also has his own topic Sole Survivor of H49.  Would love to hear or see any pics you have of Charles and Winnie and yourselves.



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Charles was Win's second Marriage. Her first husband was Johnny Swales who died in WW2. Scott was her maiden name. Michelle's last name is VandeBelt. I have a common law spouse, Brian Varcoe, and together we have two children, Brody Brian Varcoe and Kyla Andrea Varcoe.



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They are buried at Herongate Wood Green Burial Site near Basildon.  Eventually the pasture land, when full, will be turned over to the Woodland Trust.



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Olga and Vic's gravestones.

flackgrave4.jpg

flackgrave1.jpg flackgrave2.jpg




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Found the ship Empress of Australia that Charles sailed in on 9 June 1953

Empress of Australia entered service as the De Grasse of the French Line. De Grasse was laid down as Suffren but renamed during a lengthy 4-year building period at Cammell, Laird & Co, Birkenhead. She operated on the CGT Havre-New York service until 1940, when seized by the Germans. De Grasse was sunk by gunfire at Bordeaux on August 30th, 1944. De Grasse was raised and refitted, re-entering service with CGT on her old route in 1947, now with only one funnel. She was transferred to the Caribbean service in 1952, and sold to Canadian Pacific as their Empress of Australia in 1953. The Empress of Australiawas bought by Grimaldi-SIOSA in 1956 and renamed Venezuela. Following rebuilding for their Italy-West Indies-Venezuela service, her passenger capacity increased from 664 to nearly 1500. Venezuela was lost in 1962, off Cannes

-- Edited by Chris on Tuesday 6th of January 2015 02:17:17



-- Edited by Chris on Tuesday 6th of January 2015 02:26:04 PM



-- Edited by Chris on Tuesday 6th of January 2015 02:27:30 PM

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I think I have the picture of Home Lines Ship Atlantic which took Winnie and the children to Quebec.

 

Built in 1927 as Malolo for Matson Lines. In 1937 she was renamed Matsonia. Home Lines bought her in 1948 and renamed her Atlantic. In 1954 she was transferred to National Hellenic American Line (a Home Lines subsidiary) and named Queen Frederica. She retained this name when the National Hellenic American Line was bought by Chandris Lines in 1965, who continued to use both company names on the postcards shown below. She was laid up in the River Dart in the early 1970s, but had a charter to Sun Cruises in 1973. She was then laid up in Greece until burnt out and then scrapped in 1978



-- Edited by Chris on Tuesday 6th of January 2015 02:31:39 PM

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Yes, that is my Uncle Vic, he led me down the aisle when I got married the first time in 1976.  I think that is Colin, the last time I saw him was when he got married to his first wife Jacqueline. I think this was taken after Olga had died, as I see black ties.  I think Olga died the Feb and Vic died 26 August 2012 same year.

 

Strathmore House is still in business I pass it when I visit my Mom in Hartlepool, did not know it was now a listed building.  The Westbourne Methodist Church is where  my mother's family the Fosters founded the church and were preachers there.



-- Edited by Chris on Tuesday 6th of January 2015 01:55:02 PM



-- Edited by Chris on Tuesday 6th of January 2015 02:39:42 PM



-- Edited by Chris on Tuesday 6th of January 2015 02:43:12 PM

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Hi Christine,

Thanks for all of that additional information from Olga's family tree, it validates something I had found on social media.

I had found the following picture (publically accessible (there is no hiding on the internet!)) and the details you have added all seem to line up.

If I am correct, the gentleman seated (not looking at the camera) is Victor John Flack husband of Olga? (his son Colin sat opposite)

flackfamily2.jpg

Thanks
Shane



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Its seems that 60 years later Strathmore House is still in the funeral business, its the Co-Operative Funeral Care now.

Its been Grade II listed since 1985, per the British Listed Buildings website, they say:

Villa, now used as funeral parlour, c.1880. Brick with polychrome bands and  dressings; Welsh slate roof. 2 storeys; 3-bay ground floor has bay windows  with rounded pilasters, leafy capitals, large carved consoles, and sashes. Right-hand window altered mid/late C20 and stained glass inserted. Central  doorway has mid/late C20 panelled double doors,with original sidelights and  segmental overlight, in quasi-Tuscan doorcase with panelled reveals. 5-bay  first floor has segmental-headed sash windows. Between floors: an  ornamental cast iron balcony across the whole frontage. Low-pitched  pyramidal roof with iron finial and rebuilt stacks to left and right. 2-bay  left return has sashes in segmental-headed openings. Mid/late C20 extension  to right is not of interest.

stocktontoad1.jpg

Then the cortege moves on to the Westbourne Methodist Church, as shown in this picture (circa 1964) from the 'Hartlepool History Then & Now' website:

westbournemethchurch.jpg

Thanks,
Shane



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It seems that the Hartlepool Olivers lived in Bower Street, Frederick, who left for Rhode Island Number 13, George and Mary Number 14 and Charles, lived at 20 Bower Street, I remember my Mom saying that Granny Oliver used to collect the rents from the houses in Bower Street.

 

Northern Daily Mail,

West Hartlepool 12 February 1954 at 14 Bower Street Mary Ann Oliver in her 70th year dearly beloved wife of late George William Oliver cortege leaves Strathmore House  Stockton Road Hartlepool 2 p.m for Westbourne Methodist Church.  Those remaining at 14 Bower Street were Frederick and George.  in 1954.  ( My father and mother married in July 1954).



-- Edited by Chris on Monday 5th of January 2015 02:24:17 PM

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Mabel Oliver, according the Vic's records, born 1912 died 16 November 1995.  Married a Smith Harrison and then divorced.  remarried Duncan McKellar. There was a son Harry Harrison and a girl called Mary.  After that the written trail stops.  Mabel son Harry Harrison lived with Granny Oliver while Mabel went on to work at Avro  aircraft factory

 

Charles James Oliver born 1918. married Winnie Swales .  Had two children Denise born 29 January 1949 (confirmed Hartepool Mail via Genes Reunited), who married a Rick Paxman.  Denise went onto have three children Kevin, Michelle and Andrea Charleen.  No marriage recorded for Kevin, but for Michelle married Bart Vanderbelt they went on to have a boy Wolfgang.

Richard born in 1951 married a lady called Vicki. 

 

Olga Oliver born 1921 died 2012.  married Victor John Flack.  they had two children Victor born 1949 and Colin born 1951. 

Victor married Sandra Watts, they had two children Toby and Sarah Therese.  Colin married then divorce Jacqueline Mabbet.  they had three children Nicola Louise, Vashti Nadine and Colin Victor Stephen.

 

Gladys Oliver born 1910 died 8 July 1994. married ernest Brotherton who died 1992.  They had three children Gladys Ernest and Olga.  Gladys married married Wilf Norris, Ernest (not record of marriage) Olga married Ron Preston.

 

Evelyn Oliver born 1908 died 1992.  married William London. they have two children Evelyn (b 1930) married Harry Graham (1935) and George married Joan.  Young  Devonport.  Young Evelyn had Heather and Ian and George had Julie and Micheael.



-- Edited by Chris on Monday 5th of January 2015 01:33:05 PM



-- Edited by Chris on Monday 5th of January 2015 01:39:12 PM



-- Edited by Chris on Monday 5th of January 2015 02:09:29 PM

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Hi Shane and Phil,

 

I have a family tree that Vic and Olga drew up, I shall get the document out shortly and see if I can find anything in it.  So far as I know Olga and Vic visited Charles and Winnie they visited Niagra Falls, and a few years back had heard that Charles and Winnie had both died, the children, I know did not keep in touch with Olga, whether they came back to visit England, I do not know.

 

Christine.



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hello Shane.my goodness .Such a lot of information in such a short time.How do you do it.It confirms that Mabel followed her sisters to Wharfedale,but at a time when Mollie was married and probably not working at Scalebor,as she had been married 8 or 9 yrs before her sister Mabel had Harry.Ive never heard anyone mention EVER that Mabels husband was from burley area.  I had assumed wrongly that with Harry being looked after in the war years by granny oliver ,while mabel was in uniform that she had married and lived in H'pool.As her husband didn't remarry till1947 perhaps they didn't divorce until the war was over.I am supposing again that Mabel met Duncan McKellar during or just after the war and almost immediately moved to Paisley permanently.Up to my teenage yrs visits were exchanged and Ithink Duncan predeceaced Mabel.Ihad been told,wrongly apparently that Harry was given the middle name Oliver.Dont think Mabel and Duncan  had any further children. About Charles going to Canada.I don't think Mollie ever really kept in touch with any of her brothers.The only contact with Charles being through Olga and Vic who went over to visit Charles in the 1970s.According to Olga contact was lost altogether after that.I have not heard any mention of Charles ever coming back for a visit.Olgas archive may give details of where Charles was in Canada, as they even kept travel tickets etc. I will now trawl through my memory to recall the kids I knew  who were called Harrison to recall if I was distantly related to them...best wishes Phil



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Another snippet here on another member of the family, this time Charles James Oliver, born 1918.

Firstly confirmation of his marriage:

Name: Charles J Oliver
Spouse: Winifred M Swales
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1948
Registration district: West Hartlepool, Durham

Then the birth registrations for their children:

Name: Denise Oliver
Mother's Maiden Surname: Scott
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1949
Registration district: West Hartlepool, Cumberland

Name: Richard C Oliver
Mother's Maiden Surname: Scott
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1951
Registration district: West Hartlepool, Durham 

Again, sadly something squiffy here in the records with the marriage saying Winifreds surname as 'Swales', then for the children 'Scott' - perhaps someone knows which is correct?

Then, below we see Charles departing for Canada on 9th June 1953 from Liverpool to Quebec and Montreal aboard the 'Empress of Australia'.

It confirms her was a Miner by occupation and lived at 20 Bower Street, West Hartlepool.

charlesjames1.jpg

As was often the way, much the same as his Grandfather Stephen Oliver had done in 1871 when relocating from Stonesfield to the North West, we can see that Charles travelled ahead of his family to find work and home etc, and it was more than a year later that his wife and children finally travelled to join him, per the below, the 10th July 1954 from Southampton aboard the Atlantic, Denise 5 and Richard just 3.

charlesjames2.jpg

Entirely feasible that both Denise and Richard are alive and well in Canada today - have they ever been back to where they were born I wonder?

Thanks,
Shane



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Hi Phil,

Previously, you had mentioned the unhappy first marriage of Mabel to a man called Harrison and their son Harry.

I've just been having a look through the records to try and piece some of the dates together - it creates quite a web.

There seems to be some transcription issues with the marriage record of Mabel although it very much looks like the correct record as there are not any other close matches:

Apr-May-Jun 1934
Elizabeth M Oliver and Smith W Harrison, Wharfedale Yorkshire West Riding

Then we find the following birth:

Name: Harry W Harrison
Mother's Maiden Surname: Oliver
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1935
Registration district: Leeds North
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding

It seems Mr Smith W Harrison was quite a character, from what I can gather he had 3 further marriages in the Wharfdale area:

Oct-Nov-Dec 1947
Lydia Cook or Bolton and Smith W Harrison, Wharfedale Yorkshire West Riding

Oct-Nov-Dec 1957 
Marion Sunderland and Smith W Harrison, Wharfedale Yorkshire West Riding

Apr-May-Jun 1963
Margaret Rodgers and Smith W Harrison , Wharfedale Yorkshire West Riding

Intriguingly, there are two births in the Wharfdale area for the surname Harrison with mothers maiden name Cook (see possible second marriage above)

Name: Michael W H Harrison
Mother's Maiden Surname: Cook
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1940
Registration district: Wharfedale, Yorkshire 

Name: Peter W H Harrison
Mother's Maiden Surname: Cook
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1942
Registration district: Wharfedale, Yorkshire 

Both include first middle initial W, the same as Harry Harrison - This got me wondering if these might be half brothers of Harry? (though they are quite a few years prior to the Cook/Harrison marriage)

As for Smith, the records seem to show him passing in 1991 aged 83 still in the North Yorks area.

Name: Smith Wharton Harrison
Birth Date: 15 Jun 1908
Date of Registration: Sep 1991
Age at Death: 83
Registration district: Claro, North Yorkshire

It's difficult to be certain from records alone but I wonder if any of this brings any memories to the surface as to the accuracy of any of the above?

I can't find a marriage of Harry W Harrison, may be he married (if he married) in Scotland depending on when the family relocated to Paisley.

Thanks!
Shane



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Hi Phil,

Sorry to read of your wife's recent hospitalisation, hopefully now getting back home has a been a happier event.

Thanks for all of that additional information, very interesting to read, though I was sorry to read of the sad events within Gladys and Olga's lives - looking at the records I can indeed see the death registration of Ian in 1960, the little fellow was just 3 years old and it seems that he passed away around the very same time that his older brother Stuart was born. 

I've just been looking up Scalebor Park and came across this website of pictures ( www.burley-in-wharfedale.org/gallery/spark/index.html ) including the one below showing the original building as built in 1901, but like so many old buildings the developers have had their hands on it and it's now accommodation.

photo14.jpg

I also found a couple of videos on youtube, firstly this one  from 2014 by a lady who's grandfather worked/ran there:

Then this one that is in Black and White from 1977:



I'll keep looking to see if I can find more on this family line, from what I can see I think there are definitely still Norris and Preston descendants in Otley today.

Will be back with more hopefully.
Thanks for now,
Shane

 



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Hi shane. very pleasing to see your research re Gladys Brotherton.Once again seeing the printed word immediately brought to the surface things I had forgotten.The family link to wharfedale began about 1925/26 when mollie went into service at Scalebor Park then a very large mental hospital.Whether grannie Oliver found her this work or if it was an early streak of independence on her part I don't know.There were certain things she would not ever discuss.It cant have been long before Gladys followed and maybe Evelyn and Mabel.More about Mollie later but I will let you know all I know about Gladys.All the sisters were quiet and very shy ;Gladys to me seemed painfully shy .I don't think she and Ernest ever travelled far,certainly not to the extent that Olga and Vic Flack later did.Her daughter Gladys was abandoned by her husband with two small children. This sadness was compounded when her daughter Olga's first child Ian was born with downs syndrome and sadly he died aged about 8 or 9 {guessing here}.Being not far apart Mollie and Gladys were constantly visiting each other until my dad gave up driving.Ithink young Olga's husband Ronnie came from the North East and they may live there still.[guessing again ].In old age uncle Ernie slipped into dementia and was able to stay at home as young Ernest was still living with them. .When my mam and dad married the olivers travelled from Hartlepool. There are 2 photos of the wedding   .Evelyn and Gladys and an infant Olga[oliver]. Mabel was at home looking after christines dad Freddie and Charles..Christine now has these photos and may post them in the near future. mum wouldn't say why they married at burley rather than at home.Perhaps an independent streak again.Now my eldest brother tells me that among the 8  live births there was a stillborn Oliver child.He was told this by Evelyn on one of our frequent holidays in Scarborough.Again a wall of silence when he asked mum about it,but there is a larger than average gap in time between2 of the later children.Thanks for your kind wishes;unfortunately my wife Kathleen was in hospital recently with pneumonia and pleurisy and just got home yesterday.I am now looking into the origins of my dads dad who came to burley having been born in Romford.ore on this and bits about mollie later. with all good wishes. phil                                                               



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Hi Phil, Christine,

Earlier up in the thread Phil you had mentioned about Gladys marrying a Brotherton:

>>Gladys married Ernest BROTHERTON and lived all her married life in Otley.Her son young Ernie died not long after her and never married.Believe her eldest daughter was called GLADYS.She had children .Her youngest daughter olga is ihope still alive.She last contacted me 5 years ago after the terrible floods we had here.she has/had the most gorgeous long blonde hair and rosy cheeks.<<

I'm curious as to whether there may still be descendants of Gladys out there so I've taken a little look into the records - as you say Phil hopefully Olga still too.

Everything that you said was again spot on Phil by way of Gladys and Ernest's children. I've sought to add a little more detail on their marriages and children and from the records I could find the below - by way of validation, I wonder if any of this also rings true to any memories you might recall?

gladysline1.jpg

 


Gladys Oliver b.1910 d.1994 m. 1928
Ernest Brotherton b.1903 d.1992

  Gladys Brotherton b.1929 m.1947
  Wilfred Norris

    Susan Norris b.1953
    Kevin Norris b.1957


  Ernest Oliver Brotherton b.1931 d.1999 Unmarried

  Olga Brotherton b.1934 m.1955
  Ronald Preston


    Ian R Preston b.1956
    Stuart D Preston b.1960
    Lesley A Preston b.1962
    Andrew Martin Preston b.1966

Also, an aside question, from what I'm aware all of the 8 children of George William and Mary Anne were born in West Hartlepool - I've seen the Wharfdale district pop up few times (specifically Otley for Gladys) and I'm just wondered if you knew if there was anything specific that took certain parts of the family south west towards Leeds?

Thanks,
Shane



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Hi Chrstine,

Re: I will bring Dad's medal so you can see it first hand

Wow, that would be great, a real plus for the day, thanks!!

Shane



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I have Dad's medals at here at home but not Uncle George, he was awarded an Oak Leaf for being mentioned in dispatches as published in the London Gazette, Phil said that either my Dad or Charles gave it to him when he was 6 or 7 and has since sadly lost it. I will bring Dad's medal so you can see it first hand.

 

christine



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Hi Christine,

Re:  I have a copy of Olga's diary of her life with other family members, should I bring it to the family gathering Shane?

Yes please, that would absolutely be brilliant, I would love to see it - I plan to show the large family photograph you shared and mention the various lines down from Stephen that we have been traced etc

Also, I wonder if you have a photo of your Dads and/or George Williams medals? It would be nice to include a picture of those also.

Thanks,

Shane

 



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Marriage Banns for George William Oliver and Mary Ann King:

Married at St James's Church, Musgrave Street, West Hartlepool, on 16 November 1903.

George William Oliver, aged 22, and a steel smelter.
son of Mark Oliver, a labourer.
90 Mainsforth Terrace, West Hartlepool.

Mary Ann King, aged 19, and a spinster.
daughter of Charles William King, a plater.
90 Mainsforth Terrace, West Hartlepool.



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Hi Chris. I dont know how far you would want to pursue details of your dads fatal accident, I had just left home at the time.As newspaper reports are obviously printed with what is known at the time they are rarely tell the whole story.Only relying on memory of what my mum told me later ,which must have after a formal inquest,or inquiry,a fuller picture emerged.You may already know these details and not wanted to bring them to this site. In a later message I can pass on to you what mum told me. I will certainly wait to hear from you first.   regards Phil



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Hi Shane and Phil,

 

I have seen the memoirs of Olga and Vic on the BBC website.  A few years ago BBC asked people who had war time memories if they wished to share, to go their local library who would take or record the story and it was put on the BBC website. Olga and Vic said they were very proud that they had done and I told them that I had seen it and were pleased the stories could be seen and read by all.  Victor is the earlier date and the 49 is his son Victor. I have a copy of Olga's diary of her life with other family members, should I bring it to the family gathering Shane? I also have copies of the letters sent to George after the war from the family of those who perished in H49.  It is very sad reading.

 

Phil I have put a piece from the local press at the time my Dad died. You might remember it.

 

 



-- Edited by Chris on Monday 15th of September 2014 09:32:15 AM

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Shane ....That was an amazing find.Ididnt know that existed.It is not however the full story Olga put together. Her complete memoir was as comprehensive as vics.This looks to be a précis of a small part of it.... There was another cousin Harry Harrison ,Mabels son in her first marriage.He may have lived at W.Hartlepool while mabel was in uniform.Mabel eventually married Duncan  Mc Keller and from then on in paisley. Harry died in Paisley maybe as long ago as 20 years.his was one of the few family funerals I  was able to attend.im pretty confident he married as I met Winne who Ihad heard about previously but I do not know if he had any children.Also do not think Mabel had any other children.........Phil.



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Well, you're spot on again Phil, it was a bit harder to find, but that BBC series of articles does indeed also contain the following:

A Hartlepool lass in the ATS - By Olga Flack nee Oliver
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/72/a7818672.shtml

Thanks again,
Shane

 



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Hi shane. yes vic certainly was an RAF man.He and Olga both wrote their whole life memoirs in response to a BBC campaign for people to do this before their knowledge was lost.Vics episode on a convoy trying and failing to reach Malta from Egypt brings home to me all sacrifice of those sad years.My copy of Vic's story irecieved at the same time as Olgas.Iwonder if hers is somewhere on line as well.Christine also has acopy of this and im sure somehow eoither of us could get this to you.Her story includes excerts from George oliver's diary,with an un fortunate gap when he is writing about H49.Maybe he removed these himself before these were acquired by Olga.My mum's recollection were that as he grew older George became more and more upset remembering lost shipmates.He had spent several years on the china station and had served on Undine which was lost.he also lost many friends when Thetis went down with the equivalent of almost 2 full crews on board.He also lost more ex shipmates when Thetis,renamed Thunderbolt was finally lost with all hands. Sad memories for a man to have crowding in as he grew old. A lot of these reminiscences have also laid dormant in me since childhood and certainly bring a tear to my eye about people ,though related ,I hardly knew..regards  Phil



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I located this very brief family announcement regarding the passing of Olga's husband Victor 'Vic' Flack:

FLACK Victor John "Vic" Sadly passed away but reunited at last with his beloved wife Olga

http://www.family-announcements.co.uk/essexgroup/view/2072924/flack-victor-john-vic

I also just spotted this set of 5 stories titled 'Victor Flack's War in the RAF' captured for the BBC in 2005:

Part 1 - Early War Years
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/43/a7818843.shtml

Part 2 - RAF
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/48/a7819248.shtml

Part 3 - RAF Abroad
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/54/a7819554.shtml

Part 4 - RAF Egypt
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/42/a7819842.shtml

Part 5 - RAF to 1945
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/83/a7820183.shtml

I am only able to spot two Victor J Flack births, one registered early 1923 and one in 1949 (Victor and Olga's first son), so I am assuming these are the memories of Olga's husband Vic? Perhaps Christine or Phil, you might know if Olga's Vic was an RAF man?

Thanks,
Shane



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Thanks Christine, excellent that we're all correct now

Looking again at that terrific family photo at the top of this post it obviously includes the framed picture of their husband and father George William - I was just wondering to myself whether that picture still exists somewhere in the family? - still hanging proudly on someone's wall within the family line hopefully? Also, Christine shared one or two other pictures of Mary Ann, his wife, I wonder if there are others of George himself outthere somewhere to be found ... fingers crossed ..

 

gwframe.jpg

And thanks for sharing the latest 'tank' picture Christine! Shane



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Hello Phil and Shane,

 

I was the culprit in giving the names to Shane for the naming of the sisters, I was trying the remember the faces and names from the family photo and I was, looking as the photo assumed that the middle lady at the back would have been Mollie and the younger ones either side, any way at long last we now have the correct name to the face. It looks good on the tree thank you Shane for this. 

I attach a photo of Frederick and Charles in a tank, they met up and I believe Charles was in the tank division.

regards

 

Christine  



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Hi Phil,

Thanks, I'm sorry about that - thanks for the correct details, not pedantic at all, I certainly want it all to be correct - hopefully the below now looks better and accurate?

Thanks,
Shane

so_gw_so.jpg



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hi shane.    Just a quickie after looking at the pictured captions .I sure you want all to be as correct as possible .Please forgive a newbie being pedantic, but the pictures of the girls apart from olga are against the wrong names..The caption for mollie should have the picture from Gladys...Thecaption for evelyn should have the picture from mollie...The caption for Gladys should have the picture from mabel and lastly thecaption for mabel should have the picture from evelyn.   five daughters im sure even granny oliver got them mixed up at times.regards phil



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Hi Phil, Christine,

Your parents (Phil - Molly, Christine - Frederick) had a cousin Emma Nina, daughter of Stephen Oliver and his wife Emma. Emma Nina was born in Hartlepool in 1924 but aged 1 and a half she and her parents emigrated to Canada.

Emma Nina's daughter (who now lives in the US) has been kind enough so send me a photograph just this week of her grandparents - this morning I added it, and a picture montage of Emma Nina, into the Photo Gallery if you'd be interested to take a look.

Here is a small tree diagram showing how they fit together in the tree:

so_gw_so.jpg 

I also know that at least two other brothers, Frederick Emmanuel and Tom, also emigrated to the US, and also their sister Elizabeth. 

Thanks
Shane



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shane. no excuse needed now or in the future.I am a total novice in all things computing. so any nudges in any direction ANYTIME will always be appreciated/My eldest brother GEORGE OLIVER HUME was named after his uncle and has a son living not far from Heather at East Keswick. The photo posted by Chris of George Oliver is the same one as published in "The Admiralty Regrets"(a very sobering book) and looks to  me to be taken post war.



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Hi Phil,

Excuse me for butting in, I know your message was to Christine, though I just wanted to breifly point out that re: your comment Young Evelyn married Harry graham and has heather and a son whose name I don't recall, Heather actually also joined the messageboard here just a few weeks back, see this posting

http://oliverfamilyhistory.activeboard.com/t57793460/hello/

Thanks,
Shane



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Hi Christine. When we, Kathleen and I, visited Olga and Vic about 4 or 5 yrs ago olga showed us many diaries and photo albums etc but all ibrought home a copy of both hers and vics life stories.Thinking further back a lot of the photos I have of mam form babyhood to her wedding came to me when she died. She did not have these in her possession whilst I was at home.they must have come from Olga just a few years after I left home.No family bible im afraid.When Evelyn was first ill about 1989 I think Itook mum over to see her in a home in scarborough.this was the first time I had seen her since the early 1960s.She had just had a leg amputated and was I believe nearly ready to have a fitting for a prosthesis.Idont think this came about as shortly after sadly she had her other leg amputated.Im not sure how long she lived but when shepassed away I remember my bros and I decided not to tell her as she was then then slipping into dementia.Evelyn as I remember was the kindest person I probably ever met. she was widowed quite young and worked her socks off raising young Evelyn and her son George.Young Evelyn married Harry graham and has heather and a son whose name I don't recall.Gladys married Ernest BROTHERTON and lived all her married life in Otley.Her son young Ernie died not long after her and never married.Believe her eldest daughter was called GLADYS.She had children .Her youngest daughter olga is ihope still alive.She last contacted me 5 years ago after the terrible floods we had here.she has/had the most gorgeous long blonde hair and rosy cheeks. Chis im sorry if this is stuff you already know about but hope there is just something here to further your knowledge.regards. phil

.

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Very interesting to read the section from the book 'Beneath the Waves: A History of HM Submarine Losses 1904-1971' here about George and H49



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Attached is a picture of Frederick (my dad) and Olga.  An newspaper clipping of Uncle George as the Navy thought he was dead and put a newspaper search out for him or his relatives about the sinking and of course George was still alive. The relatives of those lost went to Texel Island in 1984 to visit the wreck site and laid a wreath.  Some of the submarine has been washed ashore and there is a small museum recalling the sinking.  One of the close friends of Lt Colthart visited George and I have been in touch with him about the visit.  The relatives of those lost wrote to George for many years after the sinking and I have copies of those letters. 

 

Phil, I wonder when Olga gave you some of the papers, did she give you the family bible, George had and when he died Olga kept his papers, I was just wondering what happened to it, it had the family history in it are far as Mark Oliver. Hope you can see the pictures okay.



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Hello Shane,

Another cousin found, its amazing how the internet and websites like the OliverFamilyHistory can trace and recall family history in one place.  

 

Christine.



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Hi Phil,

Welcome to the website, great that another descendant of Stephen Oliver born. 1833 (picture below) has joined the messageboard here, look forward to hopefully hearing more of your memories!

Shane

stephenoliver1.jpg



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Hello Ancient Rowan,

 

I am the granddaughter of George and Mary Ann Oliver.  Frederick Emmanuel Oliver was the youngest, my father.  Nice to meet you.  I have some old pictures on this website of the family.  Uncle George of H49 was a constant visitor to our home.  Olga married Victor Flack both very recently passed away.  I have a picture of Harry Hume which Olga gave to me in her written diary.  Love to hear more about the family.  



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My mothers early recollections of her dad were that with the hard physical work he didhe suffered almost permanent ill health,but somehow in those days he could somehow sub contract his job to someone else. As she and her younger sisters grew upmost of them went into service at a large mental hospital in burley in wharfedale. My mum Mary ann always called mollie married Harry Hume about 1926 and lived locally for the rest of her life.She kept in frequent contact with her sisters but being far flung visits were not very frequent.When"granny oliver was terminally ill in the early 1950s theytookit inturn to return to Hartlepool to nurse her.I had understood that George oliver of H 49 never married but imay be mistaken. I also understood that olga the youngest daughter was the last born butnot certain of that either.In her written memoirs Olga stated that her parents were disappointed that she was born a girl.In her early life she understood she was there to look after her parents as they grew older.Sadly she grew up with a rather low estimation of her own worth but after serving in both the wrens and the wrac shemarried Victor  Flack having 2 sons and passed away in 2012. Mabel had an unhappy first marriageto a man called Harrison before eventually marrying Duncan Mckeller living her life in Paisley.



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just found this sit after visiting h49 submarine site. my name is phil hume,3rd and youngest son of mary ann[mollie].she was the oldest girl in the large Oliver family George being the first born.My eldest brother is now in his mid eightiesand a widower bears the Christian names George oliver.mums youngest sister olga late in life compiled a history of her life and times of which I have a copy.This contained many photos of her child hood and wartime military service.She was just atoddler at my parents wedding in Burley in Wharfedale.I have several photos ofmy uncle George in his naval uniform and a picure of Charles or Freddie aged about 8 in a sailor suit which survived into my childhhoood.also some photos of chas and Freddie serving together early in the war.will gladly give any info I can to anyone interested.



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This is a picture of the family in 1916.  I think the family were financially comfortable looking at the photos taken and their clothing.  They had a different addresses in Hartlepool.  George was a Steel Worker. 

 

This one is of Mary Ann. 



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Hi Shane,

I have sent a message with the names, but it might be easier here,

the ladies in the picture are, from the left Olga, Gladys, Mary Ann (known as Molly) Mabel and Evelyn, I think this is the right way around.  Gladys and Mabel I never saw much of.  

I have attached a picture of 46 Errington Street Brotton Saltburn by the Sea West Yorkshire, this is the house where Mark Oliver my great grandfather, lived.  My grandfather George Wiliam was born in the house.  I found this information on FamilySearch.org which is free, on the 1911 Census.  There is still a mine at Brotton. 

 



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Hi Shane,

I have sent a message with the names, but it might be easier here,

the ladies in the picture are, from the left Olga, Gladys, Mary Ann (known as Molly) Mabel and Evelyn, I think this is the right way around.  Gladys and Mabel I never saw much of.  

I have attached a picture of 46 Errington Street Brotton Saltburn by the Sea West Yorkshire, this is the house where Mark Oliver my great grandfather, lived.  My grandfather George Wiliam was born in the house.  I found this information on FamilySearch.org which is free, on the 1911 Census.  There is still a mine at Brotton. 

 



-- Edited by Chris on Wednesday 16th of October 2013 01:47:52 PM

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Hi Christine,

I'm sooo sorry for the huge delay in posting, I'm sure you've probably figured all of this out now through your own research but never-the-less below is a little diagram to illustrate the next generation back from where you had detailed you had reached.

It's quite an interesting next generation also, as its back to Stephen Oliver, who is not only the one who moved from Oxfordshire to the north-west, but we have a picture of him, from 1870, and the picture is what I believe to be the earliest photo of any of our Oliver's.

So here its the tree diagram, and Stephen! 

christinetree.jpg

 

Thanks for now,

Shane



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Hello Christine

Good to have another member of the Oliver family joining the messageboard.   I'm looking forward to Shane telling us which branch of the tree you descend from.  Your family photo is great and I hope you have more to share.

As you can see from the video there's still a lot of us living in Oxfordshire and a lot of us didn't realise we were related until Shane started hosting the Oliver Family Day. 

Bye for now - Linda



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Hi Christine,

A huge welcome to you, I'm so pleased you've found the messageboard here and joined in, thank you!

If you've not worked it out yet, the messageboard here is part of a bigger site all about research into 'our' Oliver roots, here is the link http://www.oliverfamilyhistory.co.uk/ .

Of note I think you will enjoy browsing the Picture Gallery or perhaps taking a look at the short videos from two recent family history days - in the four years since I've set up the website it's built into a really nice set of interesting information, hope you enjoy browsing.

Thanks so much for sharing that wonderful family photo, I love it - its been a little while since I looked into this branch so I'm just refreshing myself and will come back again.

I'm sure you'll quickly figure out that we're part of a huge Oliver Family tree, and one that we can trace back more than 300 years here in Oxfordshire - but certainly in the last 100 years the family has spread far and wide, to Canada, the US and Australia included - though more closer to home there are Oliver descendants also in your neck of the wood over there in Essex!

Ok, great to have linked up Christine, look forward to sharing more information!

Shane



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Hi, let me introduce myself, I was so thrilled to find this website, I was so keen to put some notes on and add it to my favourites, now have time to introduce myself.

 

I maiden name is Christine Oliver.  My father was Frederick Emanuel Oliver born 1924 died 1968. 

 

George William Oliver and Mary Ann King had eight living children:

 

George William Oliver born 1904 died 1997.  Was married but divorced with no children. Lived in Hartlepool

Mary Ann Oliver known as Molly born 1905 died 1994. There was children of the marriage.

Evelyn Oliver born 1908 died 1992. There was children and lived in Scarborough.

Gladys Oliver born 1910 died 1994.

Mabel Oliver born 1912 died 1995.  Lived in Paisley Scotland.

Charles James Oliver born 1918.  Married Winnie Lived in Canada.  There was children of the marriage.

Olga Oliver born 1921 died 2012. Married Victor Flack lived in Basildon Essex.

Frederick Emanuel Oliver born 1924 died 1968 married Elizabeth Brown with children Christine and Michael.  Lived in Cornwall Street Hartlepool.

 

I have the tree as far back as Mark Oliver and Elizabeth.

 

So if a read it right the links and story so far Stephen who died in 1979 was brother to my  grandfather George William Oliver.

img026.jpg

Frederick and Charles are at the back.  Mary Annn and son George sitting at front with picture of George William Oliver. 

I currently live in Witham Essex and would love to know where the rest of the Oliver's are in the world.  I think wandering feet was in the family as I emigrated to Cape Town South Africa in the 1980's and came back to UK in 1993.

Hope my story is of interest

Kind regards.

 



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