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Post Info TOPIC: Richard Barratt Oliver


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Richard Barratt Oliver
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Update on the emigration date of Thomas Francis Richard  Oliver and his brother Charles Ernest

Various arrival dates are given on censuses etc. I hadn't found the brothers in Canadian passenger lists. It turns out that that's because they went via New York in a group of six Oxfordshire men.

Here they are leaving Liverpool on the 'Majestic' on 7th March 1894:

Thomas and Charles Oliver leaving UK.jpg.

. . and here's the same group, in a different order, arriving in New York on 15th March 1894, in transit for London Ontario:

Thomas and Charles Oliver arriving in New York 1894.jpg

From Ancestry trees it appears that the Francis William Townsend in this group was a cousin of Thomas and Charles Oliver: his mother Caroline was a sister of their mother Mary Davis.

Frank Bartlett was the brother of Frederick Jesse Bartlett, who had married Beatrice Oliver

James Bayliss is probably the 15 year old James H. Baylis (baker's laborer) who was in Stonesfield 1891 with his grandparents William & Charlotte Bayliss. Full name James Harvey Bayliss. Probably the illegitimate son of one of their daughters as no mother's maiden name is given in the new GRO birth index. He would have been a nephew of the Joseph Bayliss who married Ada Oliver.

Alfred Hunt looks very much like the Alfred Edward Hunt who was also a cousin of the Olivers (his mother being another of the Davis sisters). From Ancestry trees he ended up in Australia.



-- Edited by jane on Thursday 17th of December 2020 11:59:17 AM



-- Edited by jane on Thursday 17th of December 2020 12:03:01 PM

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Hello all

More about Richard Barrett Oliver's family came to light while I was researching my 'Olivers on the move' talk for the online gathering last weekend. I will add it here in batches - but Shane please feel free to move posts if you think they belong in different threads. First, here is some more about Richard's son, Philip.

Philip Oliver a.k.a. Philip Barrett Oliver (b.1881)

Dean Crawford's 'Belinda Jean Macey Family Tree' on Ancestry has a reference to Philip being in the Royal Marines in 1900. The National Archives catalogue does indeed have a reference to a Stonesfield-born Philip Oliver being discharged from the Royal Marines, after enlisting in 1900 aged 19. The discharge register to which this catalogue entry relates hasn't been digitised, but his service records (as plain Philip Oliver in ADM 159/19/11265, have been, and can be downloaded from the National Archives website.  Usually this costs £3.50 per document but at the moment it's free because of the pandemic. See https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7750517

I won't post the actual document because of copyright restrictions, but here's some of the information it contains:

  • Name: Philip Oliver
  • Date of Birth: 9 June 1881
  • Where Born: Stonesfield, Oxford
  • Trade: Plasterer
  • Religion: Church of England
  • When enlisted: 25 October 1900
  • Where enlisted: London 19½
  • Next of kin and their address: (F[ather]) Richard. Stonesfield nr Woodstock, Oxford  
  • Description on enlistment: 5'7[and eight-tenths]", fresh complexion, light brown hair, grey eyes, small scar
  • Description on final discharge: 5'9½" 
  • There follows a list of his postings between 1900 and his discharge in 1906. His conduct and ability were almost always 'V.G.' with just one 'Good'.

He travelled to Canada in 1909, arriving in Quebec on the 'Lake Erie'on 28th August 1909. He was 28 years old, a plasterer, and going to his parents in Victoria, BC. Interestingly, his marital status is given as 'W' for widower on the passenger list, whereas on the Canadian 1911 census and when he married Anne Reece in Canada he is shown as a bachelor.

From Oxfordshire parish registers on Ancestry, he had indeed been married before going to Canada. On 26th January 1907, 25 year old Philip Oliver, bachelor, mechanic, of Stonesfield, son of Richard Oliver, mechanic, married 23 year old Jane Matilda Edwards, spinster, of Finstock, daughter of Walter John Edwards, shopkeeper, at Holy Trinity church, Finstock & Fawler, after banns. Both signed, as did the two witnesses, Walter Edwards and Fanny Oliver. The latter is presumably Philip's sister, who emigrated to Canada with her parents later that year.

Very sadly, it appears that Philip's young wife died the same year: the death of a 24 year old Jane Matilda Oliver was registered in the third quarter of 1907 in the Chipping Norton registration district (which would have covered Finstock & Fawler at that time). I can't see a corresponding burial in online parish registers, but the Finstock & Fawler burials on Ancestry end in January 1907. (From the Oxfordshire History Centre catalogue, a later burial register covering 1907-2014 has now been deposited there.)

Jane's death certificate would have to be obtained to discover the cause of death. Perhaps, as her death came within months of the marriage, it was due to complications of pregnancy or childbirth.



-- Edited by jane on Wednesday 16th of December 2020 12:27:50 PM



-- Edited by jane on Wednesday 16th of December 2020 02:24:19 PM

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Hi Shane and Richard:

This is so exciting it's giving me goose bumps!!!

Shane, do you think that the Francis William Oliver who married Minnie Tidmarsh is the son of Richard Barrett Oliver and Mary Davis? If he is their son, and the brother of TFR Oliver and he stayed in Stonesfield when the rest of the family went to Canada, then that would mean that brother and sister Ken Barrett and Phyllis Morris (in the photo of the Methodist Olivers) have the same great grandfather (Richard Barrett Oliver) as Richard.

Lots of "ifs" here. What do you think?

Barb

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Hi Shane and Jane

Well here is some information on Richard Barrett Oliver and Thomas F.R. Oliver in Canada. I am afraid it may be a jumble because I added things as they came to mind so hopefully you will be able to make sense of it.

It seems that Great-Grandfather Richard Barrett and Grandfather T.F.R. were both builders and plasterers. I found a web site on heritage homes, "Oak Bay Heritage Register", (Oak Bay being a municipality of greater Victoria) That lists with a photo and discription a house built by Richard Barrett Oliver in 1909.

 As to T.F.R. I personally know of 4 homes he built 2 of which I have visited. When he built the the last he was in his 70's. They have all since been demolished.

One home in particular he built in 1900 and to which he took his Bride, Harriet (Hattie) Eloise Oliver nee; McGillivary to after their wedding in Sumas B.C. on April 17, 1900. Their 2 daughters, Doris b.1901 and my mother Marjorie Eloise b. 1904, not 1905 as has come up a couple of times were both born in this house. My mothers wedding reception was held there after her wedding on April 17, 1930. Although my parents were married in Victoria my father was not Canadian. He was from Berkeley, California where he met my mother in church while she was living with an Aunt and Uncle for a time.

After my parents returned to California after a 1 week Honeymoon they had about 2 weeks together when my mother received word that her mother had suddenly died.

In 1933 T.F.R. Oliver married his second wife Harriet Susanne Hann in Victoria.

I don't know when T.F.R. left Stonesfield but I do know he arrived in Victoria in 1891 and I remember my mother saying that he had gone to the US before moving on to Victoria.

I sent Shane a photo of him taken in 1888 when he was 19 years old and which we feel may have been taken just before he left home.

I do somewhat remember my Grandfathers sisters and brothers. One sister Sarah Ann Kirby nee. Oliver still has at least one Grandson living in Victoria and he told me that his Grandparents came to Victoria in 1910 after his Grandfather John Henry Kirby finished his training as a plasterer in London.

I will be in touch, Richard 



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Hello,

I'm continuing to investigate this thread and hopefully locate a descendant from this branch to absolutely confirm our thoughts.

I have been fortunate to have located and liaised with someone who has been very helpful and concurs with our findings to date, though they are linked to this Oliver family branch by way of a marriage in (Barrett) - you'll see two Oliver sister's marrying two Barrett men below, William Ernest and Edward, well, those two Barrett men are brothers.

Even more family criss-crossy is that a 3rd Barrett brother to the two referenced above is Wilfred Thomas Barrett, guess what, he married Edith Constance Oliver (see thread on R.E. Oliver) - 3 brothers from one family marrying Olivers.

So, its all continuing on - here is a slightly expanded and updated version of Frank and Minnie's branch:

frankminnie2.jpg

Thanks,
Shane

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Hi Jane,

I've taken a look at the question you posed around whether the family in the diagram below were the last UK based branch of Richard Barratt Oliver's family, all others having emigrated to Canada.

frankminnie.jpg

I have to say, I think its quite possible.

There are at least two other possible Frank/Francis Olivers that needed to be catered for elsewhere, but having done that, I would suggest that the above family is Francis William Oliver, b. 1873, son of Richard Barratt Oliver.

I think the marriagein the Headington district in 1894 is also correct as the 1911 census details that Frank and Minnie had been married for 16 years and I can find no other suitable record - though, why they married in the Headington district when they were both born in Stonesfield is a little confusing - there may be a back story.

More generally, I'm struggling for find researchers out there with members of this family branch in any online tree's - confirmation from a living link would really be ideal.

Frustratingly, at the end of the Oliver Day there was a couple who came up to me and mentioned they descended from a 'Frank Oliver', at the time I only knew of two and they said it wasn't one of those, they were planning to make contact after the day but sadly I've never heard from them - they possibly may be able put us right on all of this.

In a previous thread we saw a photo of Leslie during WW1.

joj4.jpg

Just looking at him in a little more detail, records suggest that he married and had a daughter so perhaps there may be descendants here?

leslie.jpg

Side note, Richard Barratt and his family sailed on the Corsican, here's a picture or two and a link to info on that ship:

http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_ship.asp?sh=cors2

corsican01.jpg

corsican-pc.jpg

Thanks
Shane

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At last I have persuaded Ancestry to reveal when Richard Barrett Oliver emigrated.  The problem was that he was listed only by his initial:

Among the passengers on the 'Corsican', arriving in Quebec in October 1907, were
R. Oliver , 62, a plasterer, 'to live with son who is a builder' [or it could be the other way round, he being the builder and his son the plasterer]
Mrs Oliver , 60
and
F. Oliver , 20 (presumably Fanny)

The only child of Richard & Mary who doesn't appear in Canada is Francis/Frank, born about 1874.  Is he the Francis William Oliver whose birth was registered in 1873?  On the 1901 census there is a slater/plasterer called Frank Oliver in Stonesfield with wife Minnie and children Leslie Alan (5), Violet May (4) and Doris Minnie (1).  I guess they are the Francis William Oliver and Minnie Tidmarsh who married in the Headington district in 1894?  This family was still in Stonesfield in 1911 (with one more child, Wilfred, born about 1907).  From Frank's age and occupation it is tempting to think he is Richard's son.  But perhaps there is another Frank of around the same age?  Hopefully Shane will come to the rescue with the answer.

P.S. This Frank's son Leslie is probably the same L. Oliver whose photograph has recently come to light: see the thread about 'Oxford Journal Illustrated'.


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A few more bits and pieces on this family:

The City of Victoria website has some indexes to marriage and obituary notices from the Victoria Daily Times , from which I discovered that Mary Oliver (Mrs Richard Barrett Oliver) lived to be 90, dying in January 1937.  Here too we find the marriage of Percy T. Whittington to 'Nellie' Oliver [Ellen] in 1903 and Percy T. Whittington's death in October 1915 aged 39.  Also the marriage in 1933 of Thomas F.R. Oliver and Harriet Susanne Hann.  Some of the other death notices may well be for related Olivers, so it would be worthwhile finding out if archives of this newspaper are online anywhere.

On the same website there's an index to burials at Ross Bay Cemetery.  It includes the burials of Richard Barrett Oliver, his widow Mary, and (in a separate plot) their son Thomas Francis R. Oliver.  Ellen Cuming and her husbands Percy Whittington and Cecil Cuming are all buried there, as are Albert & Fanny Boorman.

Passenger lists, where available, should fill in details of when the various members of the family left England.  Charles Ernest Oliver was already in Canada by the time of the Canadian 1901 census (he is listed in Victoria with wife Edith and a baby daughter Violet) but his parents were still in Stonesfield at this stage I think. 

Sarah Annie Oliver married John Henry Kirby in the Woodstock district in 1899.  I have not yet found them in England in 1901 but they must be around somewhere: their son Thomas was born in Abingdon 1908 according to his death registration.

Must go in search of lunch now.

Jane


More added later, from Victoria Newspapers 1858-1926 :

Percy T. Whittington (native of Barrow in Furness, Lancs) who died 1915 at Victoria was survived by widow (formerly Miss N. Oliver) ['Nellie', i.e. Ellen ] and son Lawrence. [the British Columbia death index has a Lawrence Richard Whittington, son of Percy, and wife of Mary Golby, dying in 1946 aged 41.]

Mrs T.F.R Oliver of Victoria is one of the six suriving children of Donald McGillivray, who died 1913.  [from this I discovered that Thomas had married Harriet Eloise McGillivray (date/place not yet traced).  She died 1930 according to the British Columbia death registrations on FamilySearch, and (like Thomas) is buried in Ross Bay cemetery though I had not identified her as one of the family before.

Doris, eldest daughter of Mr T.S.R. Oliver [presumably error for T.F.R.] of Oak Bay, died 1923. [death registration gives her date of birth as 1901.]  She had been a teacher at Pamberton.  The pallbearers include B. Kirby [i.e. Bernard Kirby?] and L. Whittington [presumably Lawrence Whittington].

British Columbia marriage registrations pick up another child of T.F.R.Oliver from this first marriage, namely Marjorie Eloise Oliver, who was born 1905 and married Edward Smith Ross in 1930, Victoria, BC.

There's also a ref. in the newspaper index to a Private C.C. Oliver.  I suspect this is an error for C.E. Oliver, for it says he was formerly a plasterer.  Pte Oliver, who left in Aug 1915 with 1st Canadian Pioneers and was considered a crack shot, is reported to be ill with bronchitis in the 'Colonist' of 12 Dec 1916.  This fits with the WWI attestation papers of Charles Ernest Oliver which gives him as a Sapper.  His birthdate is given as 1874 in the attestation papers, and birthplace as Birmingham (where I think Richard B. Oliver lived for some time?).  What confirms that he is 'our' Charles is that his wife is given as Edith Isobel (Banks) Oliver.  According to the newspaper, she and three children were of Oak Bay.

Let's hope that some of their descendants are out there and will come across this site via Google.


-- Edited by jane on Sunday 12th of December 2010 01:21:40 PM

-- Edited by jane on Sunday 12th of December 2010 06:47:57 PM

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Now that I am getting the hang of using the advanced search on FamilySearch Beta, I have found seven of the eight known children of Richard B. Oliver in British Columbia records:

  • Thomas Francis Richard Oliver , b.1869 Stonesfield, d.1960 Victoria, BC, aged 90; his wife Harriet Susanna Hann survived him
  • Charles Ernest Oliver married Edith Banks 1900 Victoria, BC (at least two children, Vera Edith b.1900, m. Walter MUNDSTOCK, and Glen Richard Oliver, b.1903 d.1934)
  • Sarah Ann ('Nancy') Oliver b.1876 Stonesfield, m. John Henry KIRBY; died 1959 Victoria BC, aged 83.  At least three sons (John Philip Kirby, Bernard Joseph H. Kirby, Thomas Richard Kirby)
  • Ellen Oliver m. Percy Tufnell WHITTINGTON 1903 Victoria BC; later she married Cecil CUMING.  She survived him and died 1952 aged 73.
  • Philip Oliver , who married Ann(e) Reece (see previous post).  His attestation papers are in the Canadian Soldiers of WWI database.
  • Edith Emma Oliver , b.1883 Stonesfield, m. George Edwin DEAKIN 1908 Victoria, died 1967 Victoria.
  • Fanny or Frances Oliver , b.1887, married Albert Sydney BOARMAN (see previous post).  It seems that BOORMAN is the more usual spelling of her surname: Frances BOORMAN (widow of Albert Sidney) died 1952 Victoria BC.  A daughter Frances Mary Boorman married T.W. Moss and died 1971.
This accounts for all but one of the children shown in Shane's diagram above.   With so many of the family marrying and having children of their own, there must be a good chance that there are living relatives from this branch of the family.

NB dates of birth are from the British Columbia death indexes; I have not checked FreeBMD to see if they are accurate.

Jane

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Quite by chance, when looking for another Oliver who had emigrated to Canada, I came across some references to Richard Barrett Oliver and family on the FamilySearch Beta website:

Richard Barrett Oliver (son of Stephen Oliver and Sarah Barrett) born 22 Nov 1843 according to death registration, died 30 Dec 1916, Victoria, British Columbia (BC).

His son Philip, born 9 June 1881 Stonesfield according to death registration, married Ann(e) Reece 1914 Vancouver BC, died 1961 Victoria BC.  Philip's widow died 1977. 

Richard's daughter Fanny married Albert Sydney Boarman, 1910, Victoria, BC.

Jane

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Hi Linda,

According to my records, here's a bit of a diagram on where I think Richard Barrett Oliver fits into the picture:

rboliver.jpg

It seems his parents we both married for the 2nd time. I've not looked up the details of Sarah's previous marriage (from which I believe there was one child Mary) but I had thought that she may have been a Barratt originally because of the usual middle name of her and Stephens first child, Richard Barratt - you've confirmed that below.

Stephen was originally married to Charlotte Matilda Brice, from which one child Matilda was born. Very sadly it seems from the records that Charlotte died late in 1836 and Matilda died just 6 months later in early 1838.

Stephen and Sarah Thornett (nee Barratt) marred in 1838 and Richard Barrett was the first of four children. One child, Francis, I beleive lived only a short number of days.

Richard married Mary Davis of Sarsden in 1867 and together they had a least 8 children. Richard was a Plasterer and at the time of the 1871 census he and his family can be found in Lady Wood, Birmingham. Their second son Charles appears to have been born in Dudley however by 1881 the family are back in Stonesfield.

Other than that I've not researched too much more and I don't think I recall that we've had contact from any descendants form this line yet.

Interestingly though, in 1891 I did find the family living next door to one of the families from my own immediate line.

Hope this help plot him and a family a bit.
Thanks
Shane 

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I have been sorting through some of my notes and found a certificate which I sent for some time ago for Richard Oliver 1843.  At the time I had hoped this would be the certificate for the Richard Oliver aged 9 listed on the 1851 census as brother to Mary Oliver.  However, it turned out to be Richard Barrett Oliver son of Stephen Oliver, Slatemaker of Stonesfield and Sarah Oliver late Thornett formerly Barrett.

Which branch of the tree does this Richard belong to?

I am still looking for Richard Oliver brother of Mary born around 1842-43.  I would be please to hear from anyone who has come across another Richard Oliver born around 1842-43 as this is one of the many mysteries on my branch of the tree.

Bye for now - Linda


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